Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi Guys,
This is my first post..Brilliant forum by the way....i've been reading for days

I have been working in the manufacturing side of things for a while and now want to do things handmade. So I have a lot of experience building but unfortunately most of the processes are automated so building by hand feels like starting again for me...kind of.

So my first project is to build a guitar from the cumpiano and natelson book and my question is
how hard is it to bend sides on a bending iron and keep them from twisting and warping... and because the cumpiano book does not use a mold I am wondering how you keep the shape while the sides are cooling without clamping to some kind of mold .....and especially for assembling the body keeping everything squared up without a mold may be a hassle....

I know i will have a lot of tool questions as living in australia nobody stocks these kind of tools so i can't see them ..

So the 2 companies that do a 220v international model bending iron is stew-mac and lmii ......are the products a much of a muchness or is one a better quality to the other?

cheers
by the way a lot of the instruments i see by people on this forum are very impressive indeed...great work everyonegratay38929.0129513889

Welcome to the OLF Gratay, your going to like it here.

Well, as far as bending by hand goes, I did my first by hand and the biggest thing to watch are flat spots. This happens when you move the side to far from the previous bend point or overbend at one point. I think some thing that would help with hand bending is this little slat from LMI,



I would think that it would help with cupping too. The best advise I can give with hand bending (like most, after the first few hand bent sides, I made a side bender machine and use a heating blanket) is to go slow, don't try and force the side into shape, feel the wood bending in your hands and move the side slowly along the iron. Have your profile next to the bending iron and check your progress offten. You will want it to be as close to that shape as possible when the side is cool. There will be many here who will tell you to just build an outside mold or form and don't worry about getting the side exact (I used the same book, but used a mold on my first) but you have to try things your way inorder to make up your mind how you want to do things. I'm sure this won't be your only guitar, actually, I'm possitive. So, try things, don't be afraid of it. The members of this forum are very wise and skilled and most of all helpful, so even when something goes different than you expected (trying to be nice here ) you will always have help.

The first real requirement for more help from the forum is lots and lots of pictures (we are a very vissual bunch as you will have noticed) .

Have fun and welcome again.Rod True38929.0216203704

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Welcome, gratay! Good to have another Aussie here. I'm wondering, do any of you guys live anywhere near each other? It's difficult for some of us North Americans to grasp just how large and empty your continent is. I blame it on Northern hemisphere-skewed maps!

BTW, don't be shy--you can tell us your real name.    If you like, you can add it "below the line" (like mine) by accessing the "settings" button above.

Hi gratay,

There's a few of us Aussies here, though most of us have at least 1000 miles between us. We've got most of the states represented except VIC and QLD.

Where are you at? What factory have you worked at?

There are 240v versions of bending irons available, but it might be easier to build your own side bender. The Jim Williams book (he's an Aussie too) has plans for a side bending machine. Easy and inexpensive to build.

Well I'll just have to stick up my hand and represent Victoria.....I live in the hills 40km's south east of melbourne

I will check out the jim williams book it sounds like the way to go really ....as timber is so expensive i can't afford to break sides...who can.....

As far as factories go.....i worked for Maton guitars for about 4 years doing various things and spent around 2 years at cole clark guitars when that was getting up and running....also did a 2 year stint for a distributor setting instruments up

Just spent a year building a workshop on my property so now for the next stage...

cheers

Welcome, Grant
We like luthiers from Australia. I used Cumpiano, Sloan, Kinkead, and Jim Williams books. Used some info from all of them. Don't be shy with questions, there is a wealth of info here and more experienced and good people here than you can shake a stick at.

Ron

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Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Forgot to say welcome to the OLF!

If you haven't already, check out GuitarAust for some of your supplies. They are in Melbourne, the guys name is Chris, he gives pretty good service. Some of his tonewood seems a little pricy and some seems to be pretty good value, it pays to shop around I guess. He's also got most of the books available.

Hi Grant,
           Nice to see another Australian join the gang.
I'm a New Zealander , but have lived here around 25 years (N.S.W. ) . I don't know what that makes me ..... ( insert wise quip here ) . I'll call myself Australasian .

You must already have a wealth of information , experience and knowledge ,having worked with Maton and Cole Clark .
I'm hoping you may be able to shed some light on the Cole Clark guitar designs . I've looked and played them , but would love to know more about their bracing /building rational. What's the reasoning for their scolluped under surface of their soundboards etc. ?
I built a fox style bender from the outset but practiced on a hot pipe first . It's best you get a feel for the hot pipe as I still use it for touch-ups and cutaways etc . Unless you are really good on the pipe , I'd advise to go for the bending machine . It gives more uniform and consistant results.

Welcome to this great place Grant. The guys and gals here are full of help and encouragement .

I too was following the Cumpiano book on my first , but abandoned it to go the dish and outside mold method ,although still used the book for other parts of the build.

There are a lot of guys building superb instruments without the outside mold method , but for me ,it kept everything aligned , and wasn't left holding on to a floppy side on a sanding board, hoping like hell that I was getting things done evenly .

Regarding tools : I have bought mine from places like Stewmac and L.M.I. ( both sponsers here) . Jigs are sometimes too heavy to import to Australia . so like most of us here from " down under" you make em yourself. A lot of enjoyment in making your own jigs anyway !

Kind Regards , Kiwi

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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Hey Gratay `I`m a newbie like you and have only built one guitar.I used O`briens method which was to build a form that emulated one half of the guitar and then used a side bending blanket with a timer from LMi.It was actually simple and pretty foolproof.I know I`ll probably stick to this method as it worked well for me.I also have Cumpiano`s book.A lot of good info, but I really think O`briens video is much more realistic for modern times.It`s available from LMI.Free if you buy a kit from them.        James W B

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Welcome to the forum Grant,

As youve noticed there are a few other Aussies and Kiwis in here. Im not far
away from you over here in Adelaide.

Cheers

Welcome to another Aussie friend!

Grant, you will love it here! The others have said it all, most wonderful place to be right now huh!

Enjoy and send pics of your progress,we love that here!

Serge

[QUOTE=KiwiCraig]

You must already have a wealth of information , experience and knowledge ,having worked with Maton and Cole Clark .
I'm hoping you may be able to shed some light on the Cole Clark guitar designs . I've looked and played them , but would love to know more about their bracing /building rational. What's the reasoning for their scolluped under surface of their soundboards etc. ?


[/QUOTE]
the soundboard was scalloped for strength and to make it as light as possible i imagine. Although I had nothing to do with any of the engineering. If you can imagine the idea of the scalloping being thick and thin like a bowl shape...the thick parts provide the strength and you can go pretty thin into the bottom of the bowl and still have a rather stiff soundboard. They were certainly very strong tops.everything is done on cnc routers ...even the bracing clips into channels carved onto the soundboard.....it was basically about being light,strong and loud... Thats the way I saw it anyway..
and cheers for the helpful information

Hi Grant, another idea for bending sides which isn VERY low tech AND WORKS!!!!!!

steam wallpaper stripper.

Lay your side on a formica worktop and stem it a bit at a time for 10 mins. then moving fairly quickly, chuck it in a mould and clamp it. leave it overnight to dry & set.

A mould can be thrown together in an hour if you have a jig or band saw and a bearing cutter on a router.

I've done this twice with walnut for a mandolin and for a dred guitar.

low tech, simple, and functional. Whaty more do you want?

elcome BTW!!!

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Welcome Grant!

The guys have giving you all the info you will probably need. I like most use a Fox Style bending machine, but do alot of touch up, bindings, etc. on the pipe.

It is one of those tasks that go well with some really good music in the background. My favorite pipe bending music is Jethro Tull's "Thick as a Brick" CD. The feel is important as stated by some of the guys, I bend with one gloved hand and one not. I do get a little burn every now and again. Pipe temp and constant movement in the areas to bend are important to keep from scorching as well as getting your heated area spread long and wide enough to accomplish your curve is a good thing. Don't rush the process. I then take my sides to a template, once AOK then it goes in the spool work board, I have not progressed to molds yet.

Good Luck and look forward to your participation here on the OLF!

Mike
White Oak, Texas