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I am reaching the time when I need to start thinking about guitar finishing..

I do not like the idea of a noxious finish, so I am thinking of:

French Polish

Tung Oil (also Danish oil??)

Tru-Oil..(There is a gun store near me, I live in a rural area not a flashpoint...I may be able to pick up some from there, bearing in mind I live in England)

I keep reading conflicting accounts about the "oil" ranges of finish, that it weighs the wood down and dampens tone...I have got to the point of fuzzy-headedness and feel stupid for not asking the Experts on this forum first.

Please advise me in which oil for a first time guitar builder I should use?

French polish is the most tone friendly finish you can put on a guitar. And the easiest to repair.

I agree with Michael. I like FP, and will continue to use it exclusively until my production reaches a level where it is just taking too long. Although, if I could do the Brune, one day FP technique, I'd probably always us it. FP is a very tactile, satisfying process, and when done right, I don't think there is a more beautiful finish. I use grain alcohol exclusively, so toxicity is not an issue. (Unless I pour it over ice and add OJ!)

I like the idea of varnish, but on my first one, I found it difficult to work with... Probably due to my inexperience rather than the product...

-Mark

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I really wanted to learn to FP but after seeing the quality of finish on Hesh's, Lance's and Tony Karol's guitars this past week end, i will consider building me a tent of some sort to spray my future builds.
Like Todd said, Varnish is another great option if you are like me and don't know much about finishing.

What are they using?

HI Sam

I've used all 3 and to me they are all quality finishes in there own right.

There is much confusion about Oils as not all oils are oils, the argument goes that oils penetrate into the wood and dampen it, which is true as Pure oils work by sealing the wood under its surface. However a lot of oils are not Pure Oils, but would be better described as Wiping Varnishes, these will build on the surface and not penertrate, when I am working with very pourous woods like Walnut I seal first with a thin coat of shellac as the early coats can disappear into the wood. It terms of products available in the UK I have tried many and for me Rustins Danish Oil is the best for our purpose. An Oil finish is not that hard Wearing. Tru Oil is a linseed oil based product and again is really a wiping varnish, it is formulated for finishing gun stocks and gives a higher build, Dave White who frequents the forum has done a fair amount of Tru Oil Finishes so he is probably the man to ask about this finish. If you want a finishing schedule for the Danish Oil drop me a line.


Link to Guitar Finished with Rustins Danish Oil



French Polish in my opinion is the rolls royce of guitar finish, beautiful, can be applied from satin to high gloss depending on your requirement, the downside it is tricker to apply than oil, a great product available in the UK premixed is Liberion Blonde Dewaxed Shellac.


All of the products I mention are available from Axminster

For ease of use, safety, and tone interaction, it is hard to beat FP. Robbie O'briens dvd gives a great overview of FP, as well as all the other finishing techniques, and many different products as well. It's well worth the purchase.

Good luck,

John

Serge,

I agree, FP probably isn't your ideal finish for a steel-string. Nitro will protect a ss much better than FP, and will shine like glass. Now if you need to finish a classical, FP is probably the better way to go. With the lower string tension on a classical, FP is the least tone intrusive, even if you only FP the top and lacquer the rest. I've played identical classicals side-by-side, one with FP, the other lacquer, and there is a noticable difference. Besides, nothing is worse than a lacquer finish on stage for a classical guitar (the classical players will know what I mean).   

Cheers!

John

I personally finish all my steel string guitars with FP and love it. It seems to stand up as well as Nitro and has a glass like shiney finish. Some people thing that SS players will want a Nitro finish and I will provide a nitro finish if someone wants (I'll pay someone else to do it for me) but to date no one has asked for it. I am very interested in the polyester finishes that some are doing as well but hae no experience. I find the idea of learning how to do a sprayed finish to be over welming and the amount of work and learning curve, not to mention the toxic fumes have kept me away from it. Besides, FP is just so easy to do and fast I'd rather just FP than pay someone else to spray. Not saying my opinion won't change...

There was a very recent thread, "Question about wipe-on/brush-on finishes" in which I shared my thoughts on oil penetration. Here, I'll just cut and paste what I said:

"...about the issue of finish penetration... that is an interesting issue and one to pay some attention to. Finishes are often described as being either film finishes or penetrating finishes. As I see it, it's a bit of a false distinction. A lot of it just has to do with viscosity -- any finish that's runny enough, i.e. thinned with enough solvent, will penetrate. Pure oil finishes will tend to penetrate more even at thicker viscosities, if you flood the surface and let it sit on there a while before wiping it off. But even oil finishes, if they're "finishes" at all, i.e. oils that will cure, form a film on the surface.

You don't want a finish to penetrate very much on a guitar. So if you use a wipe-on finish that penetrates a lot, you want to wipe it off quickly so very little soaks in, then let that coat cure. You've now got a very thin film on the surface. Each succeeding coat will penetrate less because the surface is more and more sealed with the film you're building.

A bit of penetration can be a good thing. E.g. with an oil finish, that's part of how it pops the grain nicely and looks the way it does.

You can also reduce penetration of any finish by wiping on some shellac first. This will give a different look, but it can be an effective technique. Shellac goes on as thin as water, but because you don't flood the surface with it, and because the alcohol evaporates almost instantly, it doesn't tend to penetrate very much. And it seals the wood well."

I wouldn't recommend pure tung oil. "Danish Oil" could mean a lot of different things... probably not your best bet, either. Tru-oil may be the best option if you want to go with oil. Many people are using that successfully. Search the archives for that as well and you'll find some good tutorials on different methods. A wipe-on varnish like Minwax wipe-on poly might work great for you, and would likely be more durable than any oil finish or shellac (shellac hardens over time, but can be easily damaged for the first year or so -- but is also easily repaired as Michael said).

Note that most "oil" finishes, including Tru-oil, contain solvents -- probably just mineral spirits, so we're not talking major toxicity, but still not stuff you want to breathe too much. If you mix your shellac with drinkable grain alcohol (rather than denatured), FP is about as non-toxic as you can get.

There's an oil finish called Tried and True that is totally non-toxic (no solvents or other additives), and it's a valid option (just don't let it penetrate much), but it will not be a very hard, durable finish (probably more fragile than Tru-oil), nor can it be given a high-gloss sheen, if that's what you want.

In general, any wipe-on finish (oils, wiping varnishes, FP, etc) will result in an extremely thin film, which is good for sound. So, I wouldn't let fears about penetration stop me from using something; as long as you prevent it from penetrating much, you'll end up with a finish that's as good for sound as anything.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

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Oh, and get Bob Flexner's book, Understanding Wood Finishing. And Robbie's video.Todd Rose38931.5936458333

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I just finished a dred using True oil for the back, sides, and neck. I used nitro on the top. It has a strong deep sound. I like the feel of Truoil on the neck seeems slicker than nitro.

Al

To piggy back onto Todd Rose's excellent post, I have used Tried and True varnish oil on furniture. It is very hard to use, being very thick, like honey in consistency, compared to most oil finishes, but builds quickly. The problem is inconsistent quality, which has been documented in Fine Woodworking. I have used a batch which never seemed to fully set up, I mean weeks. Other batches behaved like standard Danish Oil and set up nicely overnight.

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This probably won't be a popular recommendation based on the fact that no one has recommended it yet.
I have tried different varnishes short and long oil, and KTM9 I wasn't real happy with any of that stuff.
I am building in my garage and I need something that will dry fast due to dust and not be a fire/explosion hazard. I've been using a water based finish called CrystaLac satin on my last 2 guitars with great results. The satin is more like a semi-gloss to me.
It builds nicely without layering issues as each new coat burns into the previous coat.
It dries fast.
Because it is satin, there is no need to polish it.
I progress through sand paper grits up to 2000 and then put on a coat of wax with steel wool. I get i nice even finish.
I put a coat of wax free shellac as a first seal coat. This adds a nice amber look to the finish.

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great, great answers, with loads to think about. Some very clear information, thank you so much!!

Russell, you have come up trumps again. That Danish oil is EXACTLY what I would like to achieve..that satin finished guitar included in your post looks similar to what my guitar will look like when finished...natural woods with abalone dots. it was like looking at my finished guitar, although yours is much more professional looking!!!

I really would appreciate a schedule.

This Crystalac sounds interesting. I note that it is specifically formulated for musical instruments. At least the spray formulations are. The info on the brushable formulations doesn't mention musical instruments. I'd be interesting in trying this stuff, but I would prefer a brush-on type. Anyone here used it, especially the gloss stuff?

Best,

Michael

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Michael,
I've sprayed and brushed the satin instrument grade, I believe they call it "Super Premium". Both gave me good results. In fact I am surprised how good the stuff works as a brush on. It touches up real well too with spot filling by brush. Seeing how it is very likely the same stuff as the clear with an additive to make it satin, I'm pretty sure you'd like it. It is only about $20 for a quart to find out. Try it on some scrap first.   

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

[QUOTE=SteveS]   I've been using a water based finish called CrystaLac satin on my last 2 guitars with great results. The satin is more like a semi-gloss to me.
It builds nicely without layering issues as each new coat burns into the previous coat.
[/QUOTE]

Sounds very interesting. I'd love to hear more about this stuff.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I can show you some pictures.
Remember, my experience is with what they call satin. I'd call it semigloss. The way I do it, it has a smooth and level surface.
The stuff is ready to sand in 24 hours at 75 - 80 degrees. There is no need to sand between coats. I put on about 5 coats on day one. Wait 24 hours. Sand level. Add four more coats. Wait 24 hours. Sand level. If I need to, add more coats. If not, wait 2 more days and sand with increasing grits to 2000, then wax. Gloss would no doubt take more time before you could buff it.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

[QUOTE=arvey] What are they using?[/QUOTE]

Sorry for being late Richard!

I know that Hesh and Lance send their guitars to Tony Ferguson IIRC but Tony finishes his, i just love that kind of look, i might buy myself some cans of nitro from Stew Mac and give that a try on the next build, maybe a la Bruce Dickey, with disposable carton boxes!

Hi Serge

You probably already know this but just in case, Nitro is both Toxic and Flammable, you can't spray it even from cans in your workshop Serge, Some people spray it outside, but even then you should have a very high quality resperator, and there is also an enviromental issue.

French Polish is a very fine finish, once you've got the hang of it, and whilst not entirely harmless, it is easier to manage in an enclosed shop. For me it is the best Guitar Finish Bar None.

Thanks Russ,

I might then go for varnish, i had some success on no 1 with it applied with a normal paintbrush so maybe if applied with a cloth in thin layers will i get a similar result as nitro?

Hi Serge

I should have qualified my comment on using Nitro in your workshop, you could with a booth and flammable rated fan. Plus ensuring all ignition sources are isolated.

I think FP is the way to go in your enviroment, you can achieve a beautiful and if you desire glossy finish.

Another option if you have your heart set on Lacquer is some of the Water Based options like KTM9, but with any spraying operation you have to have some form of extraction to cope with the vapour, or an outside space.

Thanks Russ, will check that out on KTM9!

Sam I PM'd the schedule.