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Bracing and kerfing choices.
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7834		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Steve Saville [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:55 pm ]
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In terms of tone, what difference does the different choices of woods make?
When would you choose sitka, Adirondack, cedar and/or mahogany?
Do the choices make much of an effect on sustain, warmth, bass, highs, overtones etc?
Would you make different choices based on fingerstyle vs. flatpicking vs. strumming?
Author:  A Peebels [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:53 pm ]
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I don't know about anyone else, but I always use sitka for my top braces, and sitka, mahogany or walnut for my back braces. I have completed 6 acoustic guitars with 3 more in progress,so I'm no expert but the best sounding yet is a dred with sitka top and top braces with walnut B&S with walnut back braces and neck. My gut tells me that it's more how you brace than which type of topwood that you use for the top braces.

Al
Author:  Dickey [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:01 pm ]
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I use Adirondack for top bracing, but I've used Sitka too. Can't help you with the others which I've not used.

Keaggy is coming to Memphis on Saturday, we're showing up a bit early to visit with him Steve.

www.mybrothersbenefit.org


Author:  Terry Stowell [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:54 pm ]
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Woo Hoo!
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:26 am ]
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For the soundboard I've used spruce, except for one instrument. Mostly Euro spruce, which I get from International violin. They sell upright bass "bass bars," each one of which has enough material to get several guitars worth of bracing out of. I've also used white spruce and sitka. The last guitar I built was a combination of Euro and sitka -- I ran out of Euro and had to cut a couple of braces out of sitka to finish it. The guitar came out sounding great -- one of my best so far.

The only guitar the I've built that didn't get spruce bracing for the soundboard got Spanish cedar.

Miguel Rodriguez, Jr. preferred cedar as brace wood. And his guitars are legendary. Paulino Bernabe has used Spanish cedar to brace his tops and his guitars are equally legendary. The guitar I built using Spanish cedar bracing took quite a bit longer to open up than those with spruce bracing, but it sounds very nice now, several months after completion.

For the backs, I use either mahogany or Spanish cedar. Mahogany seems to be a bit stiffer, so I construct my Spanish cedar braces to be a bit taller than the mahogany ones. I like using Spanish cedar for braces because it gives the instrument a wonderful smell.

Best,

Michael
Author:  Steve Saville [ Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:48 am ]
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Does anyone know what they would choose for a particular style of playing like fingerstyle vs strumming vs jazz?
It seems that we have an idea here what we like, but no real idea of what properties other woods might impart.
Is that fair/true?
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:08 am ]
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Considering all the variables that occur from one guitar to the next, it seems to me that isolating tonal differences between different species of spruce (for example) used for bracing would be somewhat difficult. Personally, I think that items such as the bracing pattern, the way the braces are contoured, the way the top is tuned, even the thickness of the back, have more of an effect on a guitar's sound than the relatively minor differences in the material used for the braces themselves.

Having said all that, however, as I noted above, there are at least two well-known classical builders who have departed from the norm, and they likely did this for a pretty good reason. Both Rodriguez and Bernabe guitars are noted for their volume and sonority.

Best,

Michael
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:20 am ]
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The things I look for in bracing is density and uniformity of grain lines, runout and stiffness. I use Red Cedar, Sitka and Adirondack Spruce. Personally I don't think the type of wood used to make linings (outside of keeping the mass down) make enough tonal difference that could be measured. Most of mine are made from Mahogany, Basswood and soon to be Aspen.MichaelP38932.5982986111
Author:  MSpencer [ Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:16 pm ]
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I use Sitka and Mahog for bracing and Spanish Cedar and Basswood for Kerfling. I think size, shape and placement on bracing has more effect than wood type.

Mike
White Oak, Texas

Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:33 am ]
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My logic about top bracing material is that I want the same properties as I want in a top, primarily stiffness to weight ratio. Therefore I wouldn't choose something other than the woods I choose for tops. Furthermore, I see the braced top as a unit, not as separate parts -- they're glued together, so they ain't separate anymore. So, I'm not likely to choose a different wood for bracing on a given guitar than I've used for the top on that guitar, because I've already chosen the wood I want for the soundboard of that guitar. In other words, if I've identified some quality that Sitka imparts to tone and that's what I want on a given guitar, I am only defeating my own purpose if I construct part of the soundboard of a different wood. I suppose it's possible I might think I could combine the tonal qualities of two different woods by using one for the top and one for the bracing, so I might be inclined to try that sometime.

As far as the back is concerned, I don't see light weight as being nearly as important (or I'd never use a wood like rosewood for a back), and I doubt the choice of bracing wood has a significant effect on tone, so I might choose cedro or walnut for smell, or something else for color, or whatever...
Author:  Steve Saville [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:13 am ]
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I'm mostly concerned with steel string guitars.
It seems to me that sitka is used for bracing on 99% of steel string tops.
When the top is walnut, maple, koa or cedar, the overwhelming choice is still sitka.
Light and strong are great properties for tops and top bracing.

I don't see cedar tops with cedar bracing. That puzzles me.   
I understand why one would use sitka for other tops over cedar, but is seems that cedar braces would go naturally with cedar tops.
I've made 2 cedar topped guitars, both of them with sitka. I'm sure someone here has used cedar on cedar for a steel string. How was it?

Just thinking out loud.
Author:  Dean [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:08 am ]
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newbe dean here,
bracing has me completely confused. In a perfect world where the tone wood would be completely sufficient to support itself, would any bracing be needed? Is some bracing solely for strength and/or solely for tone? I assume the x bracing is pretty much just for strength.
Very unsure about the others. Nobody really attacts this subject logically. Kind of like voodoo answers!What's the truth?

Dean
Leucadia,Ca
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:05 pm ]
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I'm thinking that luthiers realized several hundred years ago that the perfect world doesn't exist when it comes to unsupported tonewood. Even Stradivarius braced his instruments.

Actually, Dr. Michael Kasha researched guitar bracing extensively. His collaboration with the late Richard Schneider resulted in some quite innovative guitars, both classicals and steel strings. They are worth study.

I have found, based on my own admittedly limited building experience, but coupled with substantial research on this very subject, that guitars have a very large "sweet spot" when it comes to bracing design. As long as the bracing performs its necessary function of supporting the top against string tension forces, there seems to be a virtually unlimited allowable number of variations in design, and, I would wager that most of the designs, when properly executed, will work very well. But chances are equally likely that each variation will have a characteristic tonal quality.

This gives the luthier substantial leeway when it comes to both artistic and analytical designs. Since so many designs work so well, it allows for the sort of individual "sound" that many luthiers are seeking. It's all good.

Best,

Michael
Michael McBroom38933.8829861111
Author:  Dean [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:15 am ]
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Thanks Michael, the cloud is lifting.
Dean
Author:  arvey [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:09 am ]
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I use the same wood for Top bracing as I do for the Top, Sitka Spruce for Sitk, Adi for adi, lutz for Lutz etc. I also use white spruce which I really like. To my ear it sounds like a more balanced tone when I use the same wood. For the BAck I've used all the spruces but am now using Douglas Fir which I really like. Again it is just to my ear but it seems to give more projection and I can keep them small.
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