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Hesh, glad you've deiced to come out of the bathroom
To your questions:
1) all of the books say to stand with your hands to your side and measure from the floor to your middle finger tip as the hands are flat against your side. But that's more for big planing and heavy stuff. I have both of mine at 37" and they are about perfect for me, if you have poor vision , you might even go higher.
2) MDF is the material of choice. Go two layers thick of 3/4" One sheet will do it and it's not expensive so you won't be too concerned about mucking it up. It's heavier and flatter than particle board.
3) I had a bench on wheels once and hated it. The darn thing was always rocking. Maybe think of a way to mount a mobile base so that it can be dropped firmly onto the floor when you want it steady.
4) sounds like you are thinking well.
5) I've got 4 banks of flourescents and they do a great job. Maybe a task light for detail jobs.
6)Grizzly has a little shop layout program on their website. It helps a bit.
Good luck. P

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] It’s time to come out of the bathroom and build a proper shop…..

I am planning to move my shop into a spare bedroom that is currently my computer room/office. This room is 11.5’ x 11’ and the entire room including a very large closet will be available for a shop and will have nothing else in it.

I could use some suggestions from my OLF pals on how to best organize my new space for efficiency, comfort, safety, comfort, and what ever else should be important.

To start, and since I have never built any thing before except 10 guitars with the 10th a few weeks from completion, I have some basic questions for you if I may please. Also please feel very free to suggest any thing that you believe would be of value to me.

1)     Is there a standard for work bench height? What I use now is 35’ tall and feels to low for me since I am mostly standing when I build. Lance’s shop had benches that were much higher which I really liked.

2)     Bench top surface – I am looking for something inexpensive - is particle board acceptable?

3)     I like the idea of an island bench so I can get at the guitar from all sides. However this space is not very large and an island would take up a great deal of space. Is a bench that can pull out from the wall on wheels going to be sturdy enough for what we do?

4)     Dust collection – I plan on a small dust collection system (probably Jet since I like their stuff) to supplement my Festool dust extractor which even works great with the Performax BTW. I would like a recommendation on a HEPA ambient dust filter please? Again, it’s a small space so a small, quality unit should do the trick.

5)     Lighting – I bought some 4’ fluorescent tubes today to replace a flickering one in the bathroom/shop now. I noticed that there are many varieties. What would you recommend for shop use?

6)      Is there such a thing as shop floor plan planning software? If so where do I get it please?

Many thanks!
[/QUOTE]

1) Depends on your height, I'm 6'4" and mine is 36" which is perfect for me.

2) That will work, I'm going to maple for the next one I build but I've been using a fine partical board for years now.

3) I would put a small solid bench in the center, I can show you how to have workboards that float allowing you more room. If I had a small space I would have a small bench just big enough for tools and a suspended workboard for the guitar (I'll take some pics for you tomorrow of what I use). But you want something solid.

4) If you have an outside wall you can put a small shed and run the DC from there, that will take up almost no floor space, otherwise you can get very small DC's that will meet your needs, check out Penn State. For ambient I used an overhead unit from Penn State, works perfect for me and takes up no floor space.

5) This is a fun one to do, you want higher wattage and good coverage, get the full spectrum bulbs, they will give you better results. I overdid mine a bit but no longer rely on desklamps which really just get in way...

6) I have not seen one for shops, I found a construction layout in one of the woodworking magazines, I can send you a copy of their layout, it's what I used to do my shop, it has most of the tools already drawn out.

A couple of words of advice...

1. Go Vertical on storage, the higher the better, you would be surprised how much stuff you can store above your tools and work areas.

2. Make your tools mobile, I can pull out most of my tools if I need more room around them, it makes a HUGE difference in floor space.

3. Go overkill on the lighting, avoid desklamps if you can help it, your ceiling light should provide all your needs.

4. Look at EVERYTHING as a possible storage spot, I even used the based of my vacuum press to store radius dishes and items like that.

5. If you have cement floor, epoxy that sucker, it really helps keep the humidity stable.

6. Have fun, I spent a good deal of time planning and I've had my frustrations but in the end I have a shop I'm very very happy working in and that's what counts.

Cheers

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Standard height is 915mm (3'), but this is a compromise that is supposed to cater to short people as well as tall people. I like mine a couple inches taller. Hint; your kitchen benchtops should be standard height.

An old solid core door makes a great benchtop. You can top it with some masonite and replace the masonite when it gets worn.

Wheels are bad on a work bench that you're going to be using hand planes on. You want solid and heavy, no wobble.

I used tri-phos fluorecent tubes at the moment, there are quad-phos available that are brighter, but I couldn't find any that produce a daylight spectrum like the tri-phos do (not that I spent a lot of time looking). Almost feels like I should be wearing shades and slapping on some sunscreen.

Hesh, just for the record, im 5.11 and my benchs are 41.5" high.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] It’s time to come out of the bathroom and build a proper shop[/QUOTE]
Great...now you can get some reading done!

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]I am planning to move my shop into a spare bedroom[/QUOTE]
But now you won't get any sleep!

Good luck on your new project.

Depending on practicality of the space (this is a little radical) but you can cut out some drywall between studs and put little 16" wide shelving in, on inside, uninulated walls.

Tool chest are a great way to keep things mobile, uncluttered, clean, and accessible. You'd be amazed how much Stew Mac stuff will fit in there!

Glad to hear the expansion. Just don't let quality contol slack off and start production in Mexico. You'd lose that cool bathroom mojo you've got there.
Terry Stowell38936.9562731481

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]
1)     Is there a standard for work bench height? What I use now is 35’ tall and feels to low for me since I am mostly standing when I build. Lance’s shop had benches that were much higher which I really liked.[/quote]

I recommend that you go with what you find comfortable. I have a bad back, and stooping over, even slightly, aggravates it. So I built my benches tall, although not quite 35 ft tall. I'm 5'11" and one bench is 42" and the other is 39". The extra height helps me keep my back straight.

[quote]
2)     Bench top surface – I am looking for something inexpensive - is particle board acceptable?[/quote]

I covered one of my benches with nice oak ply and the other with MDF. I chose MDF for the latter out of convenience -- cuz I had it laying around -- but I'm glad I did. Now if I need to do a bit of sawing or chiseling or drilling, etc, I don't worry if the tool goes through the wood and mars the bench top. Once it gets really scarred up, I'll just remove the deck screws holding it down now, and turn it over. Good to go for several more years.

[quote]
3)     I like the idea of an island bench so I can get at the guitar from all sides. However this space is not very large and an island would take up a great deal of space. Is a bench that can pull out from the wall on wheels going to be sturdy enough for what we do?[/quote]

One of the very first things I did when I began building was to build a workbench on casters. I quickly discovered that, even with the casters locked down, it wasn't nearly stable enough -- especially for planing chores. For a while I was pushing it around in my tiny shop, seems like it was getting in the way more than anything else, then finally, I got rid of some stuff that was just taking up space, and shoved it up against a wall. There it remains, being used mostly now for book and tonewood storage.

[quote]
5)     Lighting – I bought some 4’ fluorescent tubes today to replace a flickering one in the bathroom/shop now. I noticed that there are many varieties. What would you recommend for shop use?[/quote]

You can pick up cheap 4' shop lights at the Borg for about 10 bucks (no bulbs, of course). For your size future shop, I'd get at least two. As for bulbs, I just use the regular old white fluorescents. I have also supplemented my overheads with two of the round flourescents (about 8" diameter or so?) on hinged arms that you can clamp to your workbench surface. I've got one clamped to one bench at a spot where it doesn't get in the way, and I have another coming off the wall, clamped to a bracket I built. These two lights allow me to focus light up close when I'm working on detailed stuff. Problem I've found with overheads when I'm doing detailed work is they can cast shadows that prevent me from seeing everything I need to see at times. Positioning one of these over my work eliminates this problem.


Best,

MichaelMichael McBroom38936.9783796296

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Live to Play, Play to Live

[QUOTE=PaulB]

An old solid core door makes a great benchtop. You can top it with some masonite and replace the masonite when it gets worn.

.[/QUOTE]

Hesh this is a good point, and what I have in my garage shop. Thanks Paul!

I hinged one long side of the door onto a woodstrip the thinkness of the door along the wall and added fold down legs to the door.

When I need the room I fold the legs under and the door drops into place back along the wall directly under the woodstrip.

The wood door is light-weight and can be replaced inexpensively.

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]
1)     Is there a standard for work bench height? What I use now is 35’ tall and feels to low for me since I am mostly standing when I build. Lance’s shop had benches that were much higher which I really liked.

[/QUOTE]

No wonder I look up to you two so much!   

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Hesh,

Workbench height depends on what you will be doing. A lower bench is better for strength and power, like handplaning or sawing, because you can get your weight behind you better. A taller bench is better for detail work because it's closer to your eyes.

For guitar building, you probably aren't doing much heavy handplaning. You'll be doing a lot of detail work like fretting, inlaying, etc. So you would want a guitar-making bench to be quite a bit higher than a traditional cabinetmaker's bench.

The rule of thumb for a cabinetmaker's bench is to stand up with your arms down at your sides, and turn your hands so that your palms are facing down. That's standard bench height. For a luthier's bench, a few inches higher would probably be comfortable.

MDF would be a better choice than particle board for the top, I think.

Intead of an island, I built a U shaped bench arrangement in my humidity controlled room.
With the versa-vice mounted in one corner of the U, you can turn your guitar 90 degrees back & forth, resting it on either of the two right angled sections of benchtop. Gives easy access to both sides of the instrument without walking around an island type bench. (and it saves space)
My benches are about 37" high. I also built a small platform (18" X 22" X 4" high) that I can clamp in the vice for really close work, or place on the table to raise the workpiece 4".
I find it saves my back & my eyes a bunch of strain.
I'm sure gonna miss your "Tales from the loo"

If you go with flourescent lighting, be sure to get the tubes that mimic natural daylight. Not only will you see better, you'll feel better as well.

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D..

Hesh, all great advice here but let me add some pointers

1) Since your shop is a little smaller than mine, i'd recommend taking a bit more time on the planning, you may want 2 kind of benches, , one 33 or 34" high on wheels as an island and a 36" to 42" sturdy one.

Here's why

A higher bench for detailed work and a lower one on wheels for when you work on new jigs, for when you manipulate big boards, planks, electric tools sounds good to me, you definitely want to maximise your efficiency with the floor space you have so lots of shelves under both benches are indicated, those shelves you want to think about what will go in there, soundbox size, tool size, templates etc

2) Laminated maple will last forever but is more expensive than MDF or if you have a full door that's available already, go for it

3) An island on wheels is nice to have but if you do that, let me recommend that you buy 4 lockable caster wheels and have that bench as heavy as possible or have a freed wall you can lean your island against for sturdiness, i built mine on wheels so i can roll it outside the day i move out of here!

4)Your dust collection of course should be centerd with all your power tools so you can hook up fast to everything

5) Overkill on lighting is good advice and also epoxy the cement floor if it's what you have

Planning software? way to go bro, you are thinking wise and straight!

Serge

Hesh,

Sounds like a great step for you!

For a bench on wheels, I've been kicking around ideas for one using a mobile machine base, like what you'd have a table saw sitting on, with the bench legs bolted to the base. You'd probably want the legs to have the widest spread possible. Most bases we've used leave the machine sitting on two wheels and two pads when locked, but this one appears to have two pads, but also locks the two wheels.

Is the new space carpeted? Saw on another forum (or was it the OLF?) some ideas about putting plywood down over carpet, with interlocks of some sort at the joints .

If I had the space for it, I'd have two bench heights, one for big, manly, standup work, like planing and sanding, and one higher for light, close-up sit-down work.

We do expect full pictorial coverage of the process and final results! burbank38937.4114930556

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Hey Hesh, I didn't read all the post's so I don't know if anyone has told you about this ir not but Grizzly has an online application to shop planning. Here is the link.
Shop Planner

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

No problem bro, we're here for more questions if you need more answers! Glad if i can be of any help!

Hesh,

I am limited in space w/ my 10x15 room as well. My solution was to put up a portable work table that I could attach to the workbench, & takedown easily. I can't do a 360 around it, but I can get to 3 of it's sides. I used an old oak tabletop (4'x3') that I had laying around. I did put some oak struts on its underside to give it more strength, then carpeted the top.

It's held in place by a couple of eyelets. They 'slip-on/hang-on' to, 2 lag screws that are driven into the side of the workbench. The legs are Home Depot Rdwd Ballisters that fit into a square box, to hold up the end. It's rock solid & works great. It can be assembled and disassembled in less than a minute, & I can store it up against the wall, out of the way, when not in use, giving me back my floor space. Although, my Yellow Lab likes it under there!

A solid core door would work as well. I used one for years, for other needs. I just hung a door on hinges that were screwed to a wall, & swung it up or down as needed. Of course, it had some sort of support.

Glad to see you leaving the bathroom. Can I use it now? I have been holding it for a year now
Anyway I lowered my bench by 5 inches 2 weeks ago. It was 40" now it is "35 I was having shoulder problems as I do a lot of fret work. The new height is much better and I am wondering why I had it so high to begin with.
Hope this helps,
Evan

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http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] It’s time to come out of the bathroom and build a proper shop…..

I am planning to move my shop into a spare bedroom that is currently my computer room/office. This room is 11.5’ x 11’ and the entire room including a very large closet will be available for a shop and will have nothing else in it.

I could use some suggestions from my OLF pals on how to best organize my new space for efficiency, comfort, safety, comfort, and what ever else should be important.

To start, and since I have never built any thing before except 10 guitars with the 10th a few weeks from completion, I have some basic questions for you if I may please. Also please feel very free to suggest any thing that you believe would be of value to me.

1)     Is there a standard for work bench height? What I use now is 35’ tall and feels to low for me since I am mostly standing when I build. Lance’s shop had benches that were much higher which I really liked.

2)     Bench top surface – I am looking for something inexpensive - is particle board acceptable?

3)     I like the idea of an island bench so I can get at the guitar from all sides. However this space is not very large and an island would take up a great deal of space. Is a bench that can pull out from the wall on wheels going to be sturdy enough for what we do?

4)     Dust collection – I plan on a small dust collection system (probably Jet since I like their stuff) to supplement my Festool dust extractor which even works great with the Performax BTW. I would like a recommendation on a HEPA ambient dust filter please? Again, it’s a small space so a small, quality unit should do the trick.

5)     Lighting – I bought some 4’ fluorescent tubes today to replace a flickering one in the bathroom/shop now. I noticed that there are many varieties. What would you recommend for shop use?

6)      Is there such a thing as shop floor plan planning software? If so where do I get it please?

Many thanks!
[/QUOTE]

I don't know...it would seem that a bathroom is a proper shop for you! Your guitars are great!

1. That depends on how tall you are, and whther or not you'll be sitting at all while working. I started standing, ended up sitting as much during some phases.

2. MDF...yup. For all reasons others have mentioned.

3. Here's a trick a friend of mine showed me. He managed to find an old antique barber's chair and had it retrofitted to be a guitar holder etc. Real slick.
I have a bench that is on wheels, but it's up against a wall too. It's kind of big for the space, and the wheels make it easy to move around to get to the doors on that wall.

4. There's nothing better than the JDS systems for air filtration...

5. Ditch the flourescent entirely and go with low-voltage halogen track lights. They provide way better lighting, and they don't give off much heat compared to the high voltage stuff.

6. Grizzly has a nice shop planner on their website...and it's free. Otherwise, a pad of graph paper works like a charm.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Hesh -- Delta has a shop planner as well you might want to check out.

One work surface space saver I use in my tiny shop is the Craftsman version of the Shop Mate. It folds up and stores easily and can be readily height adjusted.

Hesh, Don makes a good point on the lighting, i have fluorescent lights in my shop and it's really hot in there!

Thanks for the track light tip Don!

Hesh, my friend, that's great news! Hope you have lots of fun building and renovating.

If you're as quick with the remodeling as you are at building geetars, we should see pics of that completed shop sometime early next week...

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