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| Vacuum clamping bridges http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7932 |
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| Author: | dberkowitz [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:16 pm ] |
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Does anyone have experience vacuum gluing bridges? I recently purchased LMI's vacuum bridge clamp and am finding the process a little trying. I'm using LMI's white glue for bridges. What I find is that the glue is very difficult to clean up after being in the clamp 15 minutes. After five more minutes in the clamp after cleanup, I notice that the glue is weeping again from the joint as if the initial cleaning opened the dam and allowed more glue to be drawn from the joint from the vacuum. Does anyone have a procedure they like for doing this? What are your times, pressures, tools, etc. David D. Berkowitz Berkowitz Guitars |
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| Author: | Dickey [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:13 am ] |
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Hi David. I use hide glue and clamps. There seems to be a schism over the FG Glue. I have no opinion, have a bottle but haven't used it. I wonder if FG stands for fish glue? It reminds me of PVA a wee bit on my finger. Some folks will be along shortly. Glad to see you are up and at 'em. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:19 am ] |
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David, I use the LMI bridge clamp and am very happy with the results. I tried it with Fish glue and found the cleanup to be a bugger! I now use hide glue. I apply the glue and then the clamp and let it sit for about 10 minutes. Then remove the clamp and clean up the glue and then re apply the clamp for about another 45 minutes. That should do the trick. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:31 am ] |
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Hi David, I do the same as Robbie, try to get in there and get the glue cleaned up after about 10 minutes and it will be much easier. After that I re-clamp for about an hour. There still maybe a little residual glue to clean up, but not usually. |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:38 am ] |
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Not much to add, as I used not only Robbies method, but his actual clamp along with his help. The hide glue does clean up like a dream after about 10 minutes. It practically comes off in one piece with almost no residue left on the guitar. Then put the clamp back on for a bit and you're golden. -j. |
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:42 am ] |
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I have used vacuum for bridge clamping for a while now & I love it. I have been using titebond & found cleanup a breeze after ten minutes in the clamp. I am switching to HHG for the next batch. Hoping for even better results. Hang in ther buddy... It really is (IMHO) the best & easiest way to get a bridge clamped down. |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:53 am ] |
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A question for all you vacuum clamp users. If you take the vacuum off after 10 mins to clean up the squeeze-out, why do you then re-apply the vacuum? If the glue has already made it's bond then extra clamping time won't really help. If the glue hasn't fully made it's bond then isn't it dangerous taking off the clamping pressure after 10 mins and then putting it back on again after clean up - won't the joint be weaker as you weaken the bond taking off the vacuum? I ask this especially about hide glue where the gel time is so quick. I use hide glue and clamps and the squeeze-out cleanup is a breeze with the clamp pressure still on. I leave the clamps on for 2-3 hours and leave the bridge for 24 hours before putting strings on. I won't ue LMI white glue any more. I probably had an off batch but once bitten, twice shy and hhg works so well. |
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| Author: | dunwell [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:37 am ] |
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I too vacuum clamp and use a trick that I have carried over from regular clamping. Postion the bridge, then closly surround it with the green 3M tape. This helps you locate the bridge too, but it mostly catches the squeeze out. Rub it down real good, particularlly where it laps over itself, to keep squeeze out from oozing into the joint. Next, use some regular old Johnson's (or similar) paste wax and wax the sides of the bridge and the green tape. Don't polish the wax, just goober it on and let it dry. Then glue on the bridge and cover it with waxed paper to protect the clamping jig from the squeeze out. After the 10 minutes, do the clean up with an angle cut straw or the edge of a steel rule. Don't try to get it all, just the globs. Re clamp for at least a half hour. Them pull the clamping fixture, chip off any squeeze out. It will pop right off the waxed surfaces. Someone asked about why re-clamp. Many/most glues other than hide glue _set_ in 10 minutes, but really need longer to fully cure. You don't want a wing coming up so it is wise to re-clamp just to be sure. I use fish glue and it seems to like an hour. Tightbond, particularlly in vacuum, probably only needs another 5 minutes, it cures out pretty fast. As Robbie mentioned clean up is always a bugger with vacuum clamping. The sheet pulls down and doesn't let the squeeze stand there, instead it spreads out all over the place. I was pondering the idea of a small ring of some material (thin cardboard, slick plastic, ??) about 1/8 inch tall that is the shape of my bridge but about 1/4 inch larger that I could double stick tape down around the bridge on top of the green tape. Then wax inbetween. Then the squeeze out would all end up in the waxed channel. I could then pop it all off easily and it wouldn't be all over or on the clamping membrane. Just a thought. Alan D. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:59 am ] |
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David I use the vaccum clamp and hide glue and have a different approach than most, here's my steps: 1. I position the bridge and drill two pilot holes in the out string positions. 2. I use LMI brown tape (do NOT use the blue 3M, it eats lacquer) and cover the entire area that the bridge will sit on (I go about 1/2" out from the edges of the bridge. 3. I seat the bridge with the pins and using a new xacto I scribe out my line cutting through the tape. 4. I lift out the center section of tape and then route out the finish with a dremel. I clean out the area with sandpaper. 5. I heat my bridge up in a blanket and prep it for gluing (the taping of the holes etc etc).... 6. I glue the bridge on and apply the clamp. 7. At ten minutes I pull the clamp and cleanup any squeeze out and pull the tape. I normally get a very clean edge at this point. Make sure you thumb down the bridge when pulling the tape. 8. I re-apply the clamp for 45 minutes, and then let it sit overnight before doing any thing else. I never use any other glue that Hide for the bridge, I just don't trust them, I normally mix up a fresh batch before I glue on a bridge to make sure I'm using good stuff. Cheers -Paul- |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:05 am ] |
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Oh geez....don't get me started on fish glue again... |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:30 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Dave White] ...snip.... I won't ue LMI white glue any more. I probably had an off batch but once bitten, twice shy and hhg works so well.[/QUOTE] So I'm not the only one....good to know.. |
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