Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=ToddStock] this build is going faster, better, and with less drama than #1-#5. [/QUOTE]
You realize, don't you, that you completely jinxed yourself with that comment.
Glad things are going well and pain free.

Todd, that is exactly what i've said a couple of times on this forum since i've joined, don't be afraid of making mistakes, otherwise, you won't do a thing and it will stop you from learning more quickly.

I find myself having a hard time getting back to my shop these days but i know i will soon and i just can't wait to make that sawdust fly again and again!

I hear ya, Todd,

I had just a generally high stress level at nearly step of my first, but my second has been a breeze in comparison. It's not that much easier, since my first was a kit and this one is from scratch, but I find I hardly grit my teeth now, and think, at the very worst,"I can always do another neck." or top or back, etc. But then I'm not using ba$illion rosewood either

The first neck reset I did for a paying customer was on a nice Martin D-28 years ago. I'd done about five before that, two on Martins, but that first customer's reset had me on pins and needles. Had a very nice outcome, but then the instrument was stolen only a few weeks later.

... and Serge, you get yerself out in that shop, ya hear?burbank38943.5636921296

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

The diff between #1 and #10!!!! A lot.
It is amazing what experience will teach you. You learn from your mistakes
and the forum!!!! (And 10 is not a lot of experience.)

Personally I keep a log on my computer with "my guide" to building.
Everytime I make a mistake or figure something out, I document it on my
computer. So the next time around and can review it!!!! It is amazing how
much you can forget between guitars. My guide is in sections so I just look
up that section.

Yes, you get better and more efficient

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Yeah, even if you make the world's crummiest guitar you'll learn something. My first was a (still uncompleted) solid-body. I designed it from scratch and even hand-cut a dovetail joint. I didn't complete it because I didn't have a plan on how to prepare my neck and fingerboard, and I got the neck too narrow. I didn't make a new neck because, not having the proper tools, I did a truely ugly job of chambering the body, and I didn't think it was worth a new neck.

What I learned from the process, though, is that my design looks good and is workable. I understand better how to prepare neck stock, and I know now to not join the neck and body before finishing (shellac). I know now that, if I have to, I can successfully hand-cut a dovetail, but I also learned that I'll be better off with a laminate trimmer and a dovetail bit (which I now have). I also learned what it's like to hand joint and glue wood, both large (the body pieces) and small (a bookmatched pickguard). Both joints came out very clean, but it was a struggle with the thinner wood. I'll be able to do that better, too, the next time. There were other things, too, but the point is that #2 will be much better that #1, so ya gotta go for it!

Yes indeed, there's no substitute for experience.   And it seems that we learn better from our mistakes... That's why I was sure that no.2 should/would be a walk in the park, right? Wrong! I mean I was sure that I had done practically every mistake imagineable...

Although many aspects of the build went a lot smoother thanks to experience (but especially because of this forum) but I still managed to screw up in some very inventive ways.

At least I didn't repeat any major mistakes that I had done on no.1... I know see that each build will brings it's own new mistakes and challenges.

I wonder at what point you stop making mistakes, and by this I mean major ones? I'm sure that even the most seasoned guitar building veteran still manages to surprise himself every now and then...

It's how you fix the mistakes... That's what counts. I liken this to getting out of trouble in golf. When you look at the pros you think , 'My God, what a fabulous shot'... but you have to think that the pro's have been in trouble many countless times before.... Practice and perseverence and a bit of luck...

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

[QUOTE=ToddStock]   

Volume 2 in the "Stupid Luthier Mistakes" showed up in the mail the next day - I get a new volume every eight weeks at no obligation...

Todd
[/QUOTE]

LOL... Yup, I think I got an honorable mention in there somewhere (maybe more than once...)

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

[QUOTE=burbank]
... and Serge, you get yerself out in that shop, ya hear?[/QUOTE]


I heard ya Pat, No 3 is officially started, i just started sanding the white ash back of my future OLF SJ! God it feels good to see some action again! And smell some wood!

YAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOO!

Todd everything you said in your initial post makes a lot sense. Pyschologists call it "successive approximations". My experience has been a little different.

My first three guitars were solid body electrics that kinda followed your logic and were progressively more complex builds. Only there were no plans available 30 years ago so I had to go by a generous music shop owner allowing me to take measurements and tracings from guitars in his store. After a 25-year hiatus I jumped to acoustics -- only I started building Archtops despite advice from a number of builders that suggesting I build a flattop. Archtop #1 turned out pretty darn good -- the flaw is the binding isn't perfect. Archtop #2 - which is about to hit the spray booth has been a nightmare from snapping a number of sets of sides at the beginning to having to trash a fully inlayed and engraved neck. Archtop #3 which is not far behind #2 has gone a lot smoother. I wish I knew why.

Ironically my next builds are going to be an OM and an O -- no cutaway, little inlay - KISS. For me the trip has been to let your passion guide you and pray the chisel follows.

The best piece of advice I've received was from Rick Davis. His guidance was to look at each build as a subset of projects. The sooner you can focus successfully on each subset the sooner you'll be turning out good guitars. If you fail at one of the subsets -- correcting the problem doesn't feel as overwhelming or deter you from completing the build. If it wasn't for Rick's guidance I just might have tossed Archtop #2 into the fire pit

Andy - I like your discipline and advice -- I think its time to start keeping a journal.

Andy, i love your idea of keeping your guitar details on your computer even though our computer is far from the shop, it's clean looking( better than my hand writting anyways! ) and should help me visualize every build better on a spread sheet like excel than on a note pad with dirty notes, very cool tip, why didn't i think of that? Thanks Doc!

hesh, great tip to photograph the components in advance, i did that once for Russell to see what no 3 will look like and i will use a picture as a desktop background to visualize and stay focussed on the goal to achieve! Thanks bro!

Great thread folks!

I also keep a log, but in a big hard bound book with blank pages. I keep measurements and other specs along with pertanent notes from each guitar I build.

My hope is to create a refrence for myself and a little reminder of me for, I hope many years from now, when I'm long gone.

I vaguely recall someone, maybe Cumpiano, saying something like the real trial for serious aspiring luthiers is comes when your 10th or 15th guitar is a real dud. I personally can't imagine stopping then, though I haven't been there.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Well I think that access to plenty of expendible funds somehow takes the stress out of building. I mean, if you bust a side, you just buy another one..

Unless you're me, of course, with three babies to feed...

I honestly think that each guitar would be different every time, with different mistakes, and a little more of the builder's confidence would be reflected in the sound quality, etc.

I imagine voicing an OM would be different to a dreadnought, then a jumbo...there would be the desire to experiment with bracing to maximise tone...each guitar would get progressivley better...it's a shame you can't do an exact copy and keep a collection to show the tonal and aesthetic developments as some kind of diary..there are so many areas of guitar build to explore I can't imagine a defining guitar until at least #15!!!!!Sam Price38944.5515625

Todd, good idea! I too think that Newton is onto something.

The estetic part does advance quickly. My no.2 is miles ahead of no.l... But the sound/tone, that's what really matters. Of course any guitar made by hand that is well glued and properly thicknessed (?) will sound good. But I think there is no substitute for experience (read many guitars under the belt). This begs the question, 'How many guitars do you have to build before you can accurately predict the 'tonal' outcome?'

I'm thinking of building a few 'quick and easy' guitars myself. I have lots of zoot on hand that I got dirt cheap.

I want to try some experiences. I'm going to try rediculously light braces and I'm going to make them paper thin, just to see how long it takes for them to collapse (if they do at all)...

I was wondering about having realy lights backs too. If there's no pull on them, why not make them really thin?

Anyhow, I'll start a thread when I'm planning/building one of these 'collapsable' guitars. It should be a lot of fun.

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Looking forward to that Al, i guess i'll join the " On the verge of collapsing" team while i'm not selling any!