| Official Luthiers Forum! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Bandsaw Motor Problem...Help! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8041 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I recently bought a used Delta 14" bandsaw. The original 1HP motor was replaced with a 2HP Baldor motor. The owner said that the motor had a history of its breaker tripping out...he used a fan to keep it cool and running. Since the line cord on it was 12 gauge, I was told that both the switch and cord should be changed to a 30 amp rating (to be compatible with a 2HP motor) which I did. The switch is now a 30 amp switch and the line cord is now 10 gauge. I also connected it to a new dedicated 30 amp circuit. Well, the motor breaker still trips out within a minute of running. The only thing I haven't done so far is to change the motor cord going to the switch to 10 gauge. Could this be the problem? Or are there other things I need to consider? TIA |
|
| Author: | Chas Freeborn [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You're not saying if it's wired 110 or 220 Volts. @ 2 hp it should be 220. You also may have a hyper active thermal reset mechanism . If the motor's not running excessively hot (bigger problems inside), look into changing the reset. -C |
|
| Author: | Phil Marino [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi, JJ Is this breaker in the motor itself? If so, it's probably a thermal safety switch, rather than a circuit breaker that trips when the current draw is too high. The motor temperature wouldn't be affected by any of the wiring outside of the motor. (including the switch that turns on the motor) so I wouldn't expect that changing the connecting wiring to 10 gauge would help. That's especially true if the house wiring feeding the motor is smaller than 10 gauge (and, it almost certainly is, unless you installed special wiring for you shop). It may be that the thermal switch (if that's what it is) is faulty. It's unusual ( as Chas said) and not the best practice to run a motor that big on 110V. If the motor is convertible to 220V (and you have 220V available in your shop) the motor would run cooler and supply more power to the saw. So, converting the motor to 220V might solve this problem. Otherwise, see if you can find and install a replacement thermal safety switch. Another possiblity is that the motor is overheating because it's packed with sawdust ( unless it's a TEFC motor - all sealed up). Try taking it apart to clean it our, or at least blowing it out with compressed air. Phil |
|
| Author: | Bob Potter [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
jj I had the same problem with my new jet 18 inch band saw . The problem ended up being it was wired for 220 with a 110 plug(from the factory) at the time I did not have 220 in my shop so I changed the motor wiring inside the motor junction box to 110.Its worked fine ever since. Bob |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Chas...It's 110V. Yep...you're not the first to suggest it should be 220V. Phil...Good hearing from you again! Yes, it's the motor breaker that trips. I installed a single pole 30 amp breaker and ran 10 gauge wire to the breaker box. I'll remove the motor and check for sawdust, but I think it's sealed. Once it's removed I think I might just take it to my local Baldor motor shop. Sounds like what I really need to do in any case is to convert it to 220V. Thanks for the suggestions! I'll keep you posted. |
|
| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Good luck in fixing this JJ, i know the feeling when such a precious tool fails on us, hang in there bro! |
|
| Author: | molitovv [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Electrician in the house, Is it the trip switch on the motor that goes pop? |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes it is Molitovv. It happens after about 30-40 seconds. |
|
| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hey JJ, as others have said, you wire size is not your problem, otherwise our other machines would be giving you grief also. Those thremal breakers do wear out, especially if the motor has seen heavy use in the past. A couple of times I have had the capacitor cover filled with sawdust that resulted in the motor giving me grief, once cleared out it was fine. So if this not you problem then check to see your wiring is correct. I just picked up a used 1 hp Baldor for my buffing machine, it had no wiring diagram with it. But with the model number I was able to download the wiring chart from Baldors fine website. That might be your first place to start. If you have trouble navigating the Baldor site to find your chart just flip me you model number and I will get it and send you the link. Good Luck! Shane |
|
| Author: | molitovv [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
does it happen if you dissconnect the drive belt from the motor, just let it run with no load |
|
| Author: | Keith M [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
JJ check to make sure that the saw itself dosen't have a lot of drag, friction, etc this will trip a breaker in a hurry. |
|
| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Note to all - motors do NOT run cooler on 220 vs 110 - the same ammount of current is still going thru the motor windings, just in series instead of two legs parallel. The shop wiring may run cooler but thats it. The power of the motor is still the same , 2hp is 2 hp no matter how its wired, it delivers the same power to the arbor. I had once thought that voltage was related to torque, but its not true. |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Just removed the belt and ran the motor without any load. It still shuts down within 40 seconds. Am I correct in assuming that I need to remove the motor and get a new thermal breaker switch? Any other ideas? |
|
| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
JJ - Just to figure it out - I would bypass the switch to see what it does. |
|
| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The big thing in Tony's suggestion is that you are trying to see if the motor really heats up or if the thermal protection device is just hooped. Run the motor, no load, with the thermal device by-passed and see if it heats up. You may also just want to remove the motor and walk it down to your Baldor dealer. They will tell you in a couple of minutes what your issues are. I am somewhat cheap and always try to find the problem myself first...sometimes that just costs me more though  !!
Shane |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I got the motor out and am on my way to the motor shop. BTW, having removed it and now able to see the tag, it's not a Baldor...it's a Unielectric, S.P.A. made in Italy. Thanks, guys...next chapter to follow. |
|
| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ahah .. is it 50hz or 60 ??? 50 hz will burn up here. |
|
| Author: | Tom Armstrong [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
JJ- I have the exact same problem with the motor on my thickness sander. My brother in Virginia is an Electrical Engineer and here is his response to my question posed to him, hope this helps: " The first thing that comes to mind when single phase motors overheat is a mechanical problem ( worn bearings or clogged air vents). Secondly, low voltage (more than a 10% drop) at the motor terminals caused by smaller than needed conductors in the power cable or a loose connection at the receptacle or the motor pothead. I don't suspect the capacitor is bad unless the motor has a real slow acceleration during starting. Capacitors usually fail by flashing over internally and burn themselves to an open condition. The motor will not start at all with an open or shorted capacitor. Is the motor connected to 115 or 230 volts ? Lastly, you could have a few turns of the stator coils shorted which draws more current and produces more heat......eventually, the motor will fail. I recommend that you use compressed air to blow through the motor vents to remove collected sanding dust and then uncouple the motor from it's drive belt to see if the rotor rotates freely. If not, you probably have a bad ball bearing." |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Good theories guys, and thanks for the quick response. It's at the motor shop now and out of my hands. The technician feels that it is a capacitor (best case) or a winding issue (worst case). I'll be getting an estimate either later today or more likely on Monday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed
|
|
| Author: | Anthony Z [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
JJ -- if its worst case fear not as you should be able to get a suitable rebuilt motor for under $100. The repair shop may a suitable one on hand or direct you to the right place. |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks for the encouragement, Anthony! I'm trying to minimize additional investment in the bandsaw but it will be whatever it is. It's a great saw and I only want it to work safely and reliably. Hopefully, it's a simple fix. It already is equipped with a riser block and with the 2HP motor I should even be able to do resawing if I ever want to, although the Zootman and our wood supplier brethern need not worry 
|
|
| Author: | Anthony Z [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
With apologies JJ - I was trying to be encouraging 
2 hp, 14" Delta with riser block ought to put you in resaw heaven! Let us know how it all works out for you. |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
No aplology needed, AZ. I didn't take your comment negatively. I actually was grateful to know that worst case would only be $100. I'll just have to win a few extra skins and Nassaus on the golf course to fund the bandsaw upgrade
|
|
| Author: | Anthony Z [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Better yet .... see if one of your golf buddies will play for a Laguana 
|
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
UPDATE: The 2 HP motor has a burned out starter winding. The shop guy said it would cost $350 to fix but recommended getting a Baldor motor at $400. I decided to do neither at this time. The seller (a good friend) has given me the original 1HP motor so I'll get that installed. It should be plenty adequate for of my needs anyway. A few more questions about bandsaws: 1) What type blades are best for the applications I anticipate using this for...i.e, cutting tonewood profiles, neck blanks, 1/2" and 3/4" baltic birch jig material, plexiglass, etc. 2) What blade speeds are recommended for the combination of those materials and blades? TIA |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|