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| Water Based Finish Spraying Equipment http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8061 |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:25 am ] |
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I'm a user of KTM 4 with fair results. I've run out it and I'm in the market for a water based finish. I might try KTM 9 or Target Ultima, they both sound pretty good to me. I'm a real novice when it comes to spraying finishes. I have been using a Sears siphon spray gun (about $90) with my compressor and it seems to work OK, but I suspect I may not know what I'm missing. I'd be willing to spend $200 to $350 on new equipment for spraying water base if it will make the job easier/better. Any suggestions as to what equipment I should be looking at? Thank you very much for any advice you might have. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:14 pm ] |
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Joe, I'm currently shopping/studying HVLP conversion guns to use with compressors. The thing with HVLP is low pressure (8-15 psi) and you get very little over-spray. It isn't so bad with KTM which isn't hyper expensive, but can definitely make a big difference when you use expensive finishes like catalized polyester and such... I'm not sure what size 'tip' you'd need for water based finishes. Maybe 1.5 mm, or 1mm. You can always call the number provided here and ask:Appolo info I'm no expert myself, but I'm sure that now you know of the Sears model's performance, you'd be amazed at the quality of the finish you can lay down with a good gun. For the kind of money you're willing to spend, look on ebay for a nice Apollo, Sata or Binks gun. I've seen some awesome guns, both new and used, for under 200$. What you want to look for is all stainless construction (not just the tip). I'm leaning towards the Apollo's myself. Don't really know why, they just seem to jump at me. Although the Binks are nice too... and the Sata's... Hmmm... decisions, decisions... Hope this helps. Al |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:42 pm ] |
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Joe, I've found a few intersting guns for sale on ebay. Check them out: Binks no.1 Binks no.2 Binks no.3 These guns usually retail for around $400+ There's also this one: Apollo conversion gun Or if you really want to splurge: Sata Digital HVLP gun Hope this helps... By the way, it's a slow night here at work... Can you tell I'm bored out of my mind!  
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:01 am ] |
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Alain -- good info there. Joe I too have been told that if you want to shoot waterbased that you should stick with an all stainless set up. Having said that I have shot waterbased products with my Turbinaire HVLP system and the gun on mine is aluminum. I called Turbinaire and they said it will be okay as long as I clean the gun immediately after use. Alain I use the 1 mm tip on mine. Joe do you have a compressor or ready access to one you can borrow? The reason I ask is that with your budget you might be best served investing in a nice gun. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:17 am ] |
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Alain Very good info and links. I'm not sure I know exacttly what a HVLP system is. I assume it takes a turbine to run but where does the finish go? I don't see a cup with most of the guns. Are they similar to the airless spray guns you use for house painting? Anthony, Yes, I have a 3.5 HP compressor that works pretty good. I would consider spending more money and getting a complete HVLP system if it would give me better results. Short of that, maybe a better gun would be the way to go? |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:41 am ] |
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Joe with your compressor I would just purchase a gun. As I said above -- I've got a 3 stage turbinaire HVLP -- but don't own a compressor. I am no expert on spray guns but a lot of folks have told me that you don't have to spend the kind of money you've budgeted to get good results. I remember reading a Doolin article on finishing where he says he uses a cheap gun and gets great results. The only time I understand it pays to invest in an expensive gun is if you plan on doing bursts. Hopefully someone who knows guns chimes in. I just hate the thought of spending money on more gun than is needed. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:59 am ] |
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Anthony, I know what you mean. If I spend $200 or $300 or more on equipment it would be nice to say it was well worth it. Like you said, how much spend on equipment is directly related to what you are going to be spraying. Automotive finishes are one thing and waterbased could well be something else. I know some of the guys here are experts on finishing, maybe one will offer some guidance. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:24 am ] |
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I'm no expert either, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.....oh wait, no I didn't Anyway, I have a nice little touch up gun that I use for spraying, have sprayed 3 guitars to date with it, and it works great, I got it on sale for $30 can. I remember posting about it some time ago, here is the link to it. Some good stuff in the archives also, do a search for "spray gun". |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:47 am ] |
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Rod, That is a good link.. Thank you. It sounds like people use a variety of equipment with generally good results. Interesting.... |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:25 am ] |
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I have a Wagner 2600( I think model number)3 turbine. I have 2 and will sell the unused one. I have used this model on 9 guitars and works very well, with water or nitro. Has 25' hose, 1 qt. gun. At time I bought them, they were rated the best hvlp unit by consumer quide. You can pm me or email at sthomison@centurytel.net. Stan |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:24 am ] |
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Joe, the majority of the guns there don't have the canister that goes with them. I think only the Apollo and one of the Binks (purple) has all that you need. HVLP, High Volume Low Pressure were inveneted to be used with a turbine system. Warm air, no humidity. The then invented 'conversion' guns. These HVLP conversion guns are made to run off a normal compressor. I just gave you those examples because of the money you said you had budgeted for the purchase. I know there are many cheaper and more affordable guns out there. But, as in anything in life, I always feel that I'm too poor to buy cheap. Sure, you can probably get good results with a less expensive unit, but overall performance (spray dispersion and distibution) will be better with a high-end unit. You'll have to sand less between coats and all that jazz.... I feel that if you have the money, go for the best and get it over and done with. What's the expression? Curse the tool when you buy it, not when you use it... Cheers, Al |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:08 am ] |
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Good info Al. Do you have a recommendation for a good outfit for waterbase? Should I be looking at a conversion gun or stick with the old fashioned siphon kind? |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:08 pm ] |
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I would go with an HVLP conversion gun. You can have either a gravity feed or siphon feed. That would be a personal choice, I guess. I think you will find that the majority of them will be siphon fed, though. Either way would be fine, I'm sure. With a gravity fed unit there is no fluid wasted as you'll empty the entire contents of the cup. The claim is that performance is better with higher viscocity fluids (Apollo site) using gravity fed guns. I know Apollo has the 'Super Spray' gun that is tri-mode. You can go gravity/siphon/pressured pot. I haven't priced them, but I'm sure they are very expensive. Probably out of your budget unless you find one used/refurbished. You can get the best of both worlds (well, three worlds really) with this unit. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:12 pm ] |
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Oooops, I just noticed that two of the binks' are pressure pot guns (the green ones). Scratch those off the list... If I were you I'd go with the Purple Binks(gravity). It has everything you'll need. Binks quality is world renown and it's still at a very nice price... |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:17 am ] |
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Al, Yes, I was looking at the Binks also. They look like great equipment. I was thinking of the conventional 2001SS with a teflon lined cup. It is stainless steel on all contact parts, should last a long time with water based. You say I stould stick with a gravity cup? Any suggestions as to nozzle size? |
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