Oh and congrats on the commission
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:33 am ] |
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Hi folks, i've been asked to build a guitar by a friend of ours who wants to make a gift to her grand daughter, i told her i'd present her something and i thought of a parlor guitar for the granddaughter who's probably 10-12 years old. Would that be a good idea since the kid will eventually grow up a bit more in the coming years? I never saw a parlor guitar up close but my understanding is that those guitars are a bit smaller in size than the other models. Also, i was wondering how much to charge for this since she's a friend and i don't really want to make money like let's say $5.00/hr but would still like to be able to buy some wood from this deal that i would use for the next project, afterwards, i'm thinking $600-$700 to cover for the materials for her guitar and buy the subsequent woods, would that be a fair deal???? Thanks in advance, all your advices will be really appreciated. Serge |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:37 am ] |
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Sounds Fair to me Serge. How about a nice O Size (slighly bigger than a parlour) I would do the 12 fret clear model with a short scale. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:57 am ] |
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Yep an "O" would be a good choice. you might want to get a look at her hands to see if she can barr a 1.6875"/at the nut neck at this time. If not then maybe make a neck with a 1.625" nut width. I would not go smaller than that because she will grow fast. I believe Taylor uses a 1.625" nut on the Baby and big Baby. I also believe if you use 2A EIRW or Mahogany with 3A Sitka you can keep you material cost down around $450-$500 as long as there are no expensive appointments. Most 2A wood is marked down due to figure as apposed to grain count or structure. That is what I do on my Student series and I make a bout $250 above cost and labor even with a Access Stage 3 case. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:59 am ] |
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Oh and congrats on the commission
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:01 am ] |
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Congratulations!!!! I don't charge by the hour. I just figure my costs and then add what profit I want and give them a total. Typically I don't charge enough. As far as type of guitar, I totally agree with Russell. I have built one O size 24.9 scale 12 fret. It is a nice little guitar. Perfect for a young one. I made up my own design since I didn't have plans for that scale length and a 12 fret. It is all a matter of figuring out where the bridge is and then working it from there. I probably over braced mine though Attached are picts of my 0 size 12 fret 24.9 
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| Author: | RussellR [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:04 am ] |
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Yes Serge Congratulations. Andy very nice guitar there. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:11 am ] |
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Thanks Russ, Michael and Andy!!! 
Andy, WOW, what a beautiful little one!
Ok then, an O model 24.9" it will be, any good source for a plan or if someone has a tracing with soundhole placement, it would be greatly appreciated!
Michael, i already have an EIR back and sides set and a Lutz spruce top, should be ok for an O model, i'm guessing? 
Serge |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:16 am ] |
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Nice Andy! Serge -- I am going to start on a Martin O shape for my 8 year old daughter in a couple of months. I plan on using a 24.9" scale and a 1-5/8" nut as well. You can also do it in a 24" scale. The 12-fret O has a lower bout of 13.5" and an upper bout of 9.5". I'll race ya! 
As for cost -- this is the first time I've done an estimate as I was curious as to what it costs to actually build a guitar.  |
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:18 am ] |
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I used plans from a LMI (? Antes) 12 fret Parlor but I changed it because my O body size was a bit bigger and I went with the 24.9 scale. As far a sound hole, mine was a bit big. I have never seen any printed plans for an O size 24.9. After I got the mold from John H. I traced out the body size on some paper. Then based on scale length, marked out the bridge position. I used around a 95 degree X brace and single tone bars and finger braces |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:28 am ] |
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Thanks AZ and AZ!
Anthony, you're too quick for me! Thanks for that price list bud, it will be interesting to build the same model as you will build!
Andy, do you still have that tracing bud? |
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| Author: | old man [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:39 am ] |
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Serge, Jon (letseatpaste) gave us "O" plans at our get together. He might have another copy. But it is a 14 fretter. Congratulations! I've had a friend and my brother-in-law tell me they want a guitar, too. But even if I only did it for costs, figuring a case also, I come up with about $500 figuring shop costs into the equation. Course, if I could afford to buy some things in bulk that would drop some.
Ron |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:52 am ] |
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Thanks Ron, that's exactly the amount i had in mind prior to make enough money to pay for the wood that i'll need for a next build so $500 to cover for the costs and $200 as wood money sounds fair, i might inlay the girl's name on the fretboard also! Anyone out there willing to send me a tracing of a 12 fretter or even a 14 fretter? I'd pay the shipping i can play with it and adjust the soundhole placement myself i guess! I just seen a plan on LMI 'S website, a GIBSON 20's L-O, 12 fret, 23.75 scale length, would that be ok? |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:09 am ] |
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Serge I'd see if you can get hold of the Martin O Plans or tracing, in my opinion the Martin version is a superior instrument. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:16 am ] |
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Thanks Russ, i just received an offer for an O model 12 fretter tracing from a fellow builder, will certainly go that route first, runnin' low on $$$  Thanks anyways, i didn't know we could purchase plans directly from Martin's, it will be useful info for the future i'm sure!
Serge |
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| Author: | rich altieri [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:35 am ] |
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WOW Andy, where did you get that beautiful wood? [QUOTE=azimmer1] Congratulations!!!! I don't charge by the hour. I just figure my costs and then add what profit I want and give them a total. Typically I don't charge enough. As far as type of guitar, I totally agree with Russell. I have built one O size 24.9 scale 12 fret. It is a nice little guitar. Perfect for a young one. I made up my own design since I didn't have plans for that scale length and a 12 fret. It is all a matter of figuring out where the bridge is and then working it from there. I probably over braced mine though Attached are picts of my 0 size 12 fret 24.9
[/QUOTE]
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| Author: | rich altieri [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:38 am ] |
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Way to go Serge!!! Hey, I think $5 per hour would be great but you must have used the Canadian conversion factor or something. Let's see, $300 worth of wood leaves $300 for labor and materials. Ok, that translates to $200 in labor. At $5 you have to have her built in 40 hours - you fast !!!!!!
I have sold (excuse me, given away) 3 guitars so far. Figure I made about $.50 per hour. Just sold my latest build to another friend and got $1,000 for that one so I think that puts me around $1.00 per hour. But getting closer hey??? 
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:47 am ] |
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Rich I got that Zoot from LMI (Macassar Ebony) Also, you got $0.50/hr, that is way more than me. I need a raise Andy |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:16 am ] |
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Hi Serge I didn't mean you could get plans straight from Martin, just meant their version of the O, as opposed to the Gibson one, if you need bracing dimensions or anything, let me know I have made a few O's, I Loooooooooovvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeee them, especially the 12 Fretter. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:20 pm ] |
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Serge, I'd stay away from the Gibson L-O model. It just wasn't a very good design. Besides, anything with a scale under 24 1/2" is just too small. She should have something that she can manage now, but still be able to use as she grows. The Martins mentioned would be a good choice, but remember, there's nothing wrong with using a 14-fret neck design. A pro would be able to tell the difference in timbre from a 12-fret, but from the reports coming out of Bob's Bash about your dred, I think you'll be able to make a fine sounding 14-freter! The plans are more readily available, too. Besides, I'm thinkin' that if you're going to fuss around adjusting the soundhole and bracing to convert long-neck plans to short-neck, you might as well skip the plans and design your own guitar from scratch (The POWER...mwaaa-haa-haa!). It'd be your first custom-made commission!
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:28 pm ] |
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Carlton -- on the scale length -- makes sense. If the childs hands are too small you can always capo the instrument initially. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:03 pm ] |
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Oh well, Thanks anyways guoys but it did not work this time although the little girl's grandmother really was disapointed in not being able to go further on this deal at the moment, the kid had expressed the wish to get a guitar after seeing a pink guitar in a store somewhere but it was so she could pretend to be some star on TV but doesn't show any interest whatsoever in learning how to play music for now... Thanks for the great support you've all demonstrated, it really meant the world to me, i was really happy at first to share such great news with you all, there is always a next time, i'm still hoping! Sorry for this... |
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| Author: | Tom Morici [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:50 pm ] |
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Serge I was happy for you when I saw the heading of your post. I was called to dinner before I got a chance to read it. The time I got back I saw your last post "bad news" My first thought was thats good news, seems you have a lot on the bench right now, after reading the post I saw it as a blessing in disguise. I'll bet it felt good while it lasted. I hope you feel the same way. If not, Im sorry it did not work out for you. Tom |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:58 pm ] |
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Thanks Tom, i'm ok, my Lady friend really wanted me to have this commission from her and she wanted to ask many more questions to her granddaughter and i insisted she did not put pressure on the child, i told her that the child was still very young and that if she was meant to own a custom made guitar as a gift from her Grandmother one day, the same price would be there. I'm somewhat glad, i would have put pressure on my shoulders to have it finished by december and already felt good last night about not having this deal, i know something better is on it's way for me
Thanks Tom! |
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| Author: | Phil Marino [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:51 pm ] |
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Serge- Congratulations on you first commission!! I'm sure it will turn out to be a beautiful and great-sounding guitar. And, make sure you post pictures when it's finished. Phil |
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