Official Luthiers Forum!

Check out this photo. I "think" it's of the model that is considered a little earlier than the 31-255X (meaning X5).

Anyway, this one is used and is relatively near me. Might could be had for a decent price. Some of the Delta reviews on Amazon indicate that the earlier models had some table gear issues that were aggravating. This supposedly was cleared up in later versions of the sander (again, the X5 model). The guy who has this is convinced it is the X5 model, and I don't think it is. (I'm willing to be wrong though)

Will one of you who had THIS model, get the model number off the machine for me? Also, have you had any issues with the table raising/lowering mechanism, or the table drive belt gears?

Thanks greatly. Buying a used tool scares me somewhat: no warranty, don't know how it's been treated, etc.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Looks like a mean machine Bill, Delta makes great tools so it should be good, pretty sure Todd Stock knows about them, maybe he'll chime in!

Serge

[quote=Bill Greene]"You can't find these things used anywhere. I think there are only 5 of them out there anywhere in the world."[/quote]

Don Williams38954.341099537

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

That's the same sander that ate my adi top yesterday. Kill it before it strikes again!

Seriously though, it has been a very good sander. As mentioned above there are some setup issues with it. On mine it was mainly getting the feed belt to track properly.

The thing that broke on mine was the small piece of spring steel that the belt clip is attached to. When it broke off the paper on the drum unraveled and made a mess of my top. Can't imagine why it broke, there is very little tension on it and it doesn't get constantly bent back and forth. Guess it just got old an tired, like me.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

I have the newer model. If you look in the archives you will find a bunch of pics of mine as it is/was for sale. I have had issues with the table not moving up and down as easily as I would like. But that is also due to the fact that I live in FLA. and everything rusts here in about a day. The performax is much much nicer...IMHO

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

I own the 31-250 and have had only minor issues with the belt
tracking and the table movement mechanisms, they were relatively
easily addressed by periodic maintenance and checkups. Early on I
dropped a belt, but that was due to operator error and not a flaw
with the machine itself.

Louis

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- Louis Freilicher

Oh No! Not another learning experience!

I also have that sander, I have droped a belt before but now I alwas spray the drum with scotch 77 before applying the abrasive. Haven't dropped a belt since.
I don't believe it's an X5, but the X5 thing just seemed to me to be a marketing thing for Delta anyway. Although on this particular machine they may have fixed the issue with the clips, which would be good.
Other than that it's been a good sander, no table or tracking issues and it sands really flat. It has very good adjustments in this regard.Jim_W38954.7567013889

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Check critically for sanding flatness - my Delta sanded .010" thinner in the
middle until I ground the platen down. Mine is about 7 years old and no
problems with tracking or lift mechanism other than the original tedious
setup.

This is the least popular tool in my shop, and the first one I will replace when I am feeling flush. The good news is that you can get it to do the job accurately. The bad news is that you have to nurse it along, taking tiny cuts and frequently changing the clogged sanding wrap. Sanding a guitar back about .006" at a pass is pretty tedious. Especially when it uses up two 80 grit wraps to do the job.

I have had no problem with table height adjustment or table flatness. I bought the machine used, and could see that the feed belt was misaligned and stretched out on one side. I aligned the new belt carefully and it has stayed aligned. However the grit on it wears down, and when that happens, your work stops feeding when it hits the rear pressure roller and snipes. To avoid this you have to be pushing on the work to help it feed through when it hits that rear roller.

Unfortunately, a serious thickness sander is a big and expensive item, and will need a new electrical circuit to power it, and maybe a new dust collector. In its class, the Delta is probably as good as the rest.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Howard, I remember you doing research on sanders last year. I still suggest the General double drum and Woodcraft now carries General Tools. With the center hold down (between the sanding heads) I routinely sand 5" long knife pieces....hundreds at a session.

My Delta 18-36 sits by the shop door and is a great place to throw my coat on when I come in. I stack UPS shipments on it, but am afraid it will collapse some day. It's an OK "hobby" machine if you have the time and patience for it. Howard pointed out most of the problems. The plastic drive belt for the table can stretch under load then you have to re-align the table posts..sigh... Throw another grand into the pot and get a good sander.

Larry, how do you avoid filling the sandpaper with the General when sanding oily woods? I was thinking that this would happen with any drum type machine. Also, the Woodtek from Woodworkers Supply looks like it is made by the same factory as the General. But it costs a lot less. Any idea what the differences might be?

I have been trying to find a way to justify going for the Grizzly 18" wide belt. Sylvan Wells has one and says it's great. Maybe by offering thickness sanding services?Howard Klepper38959.5487384259

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Howard, there's been all kinds of chatter here lately about the resins sticking to a drum. Some folks swear that blowing air into the unit will cause the dust to go air-borne, and then a really good dust collector can pick it up before it has the opportunity to fly around the drum and get trapped.
I don't subscribe to that thinking when it comes to the really waxy woods like cocobolo. My take is that the pressure on the wood forces the dust to stick to the sandpaper, and then more sticks to that, and so on... I say this because my drum travels the same direction as the wood, and my dust ports are 1" from the drum near the top. Some woods I have no problems, and even some cocobolo. Others, on the other hand, are a nightmare. Sometimes you have to go with very light passes and hope for the best.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

If I were going to buy a bigger drum sander, I would try to get one that is wide enough to run tops and back thru sideways. That seems to be the biggest factor in keeping the abrasives clean.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I have tried a lot of methods. Feeding sideways is not an option on an 18" sander, and I have a 2hp dust collector on it. Heat is the enemy along with pressure, I think (and pressure increases the heat). That oily swarf gets baked on so fast. What I'm not sure about is whether the metal drum makes this better (by being a heat sink) or worse (by holding heat) than a hard rubber drum.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] I have tried a lot of methods. Feeding sideways is not an option on an 18" sander, and I have a 2hp dust collector on it. Heat is the enemy along with pressure, I think (and pressure increases the heat). That oily swarf gets baked on so fast. What I'm not sure about is whether the metal drum makes this better (by being a heat sink) or worse (by holding heat) than a hard rubber drum.[/QUOTE]

Agreed on the heat and pressure...for sure.

No idea on the metal vs rubberized drum

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

As I think about it, with the open end I could try feeding sideways.    I worry about getting the scratches out, though. I've noticed that removing scratches from 80 grit on the thickness sander requires using 60 grit on the ROS.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Don,
I would think that the rubberized drum would be worse - although, I am
by no means certain of that.

I tend to view myself as a Woodmaster drum sander spokeperson of sorts.
The reason is because it is one of the few tools I have ever bought (aside
from my Minimax Jointer/Planer) that works flawlessly. A couple weeks
back, I sanded all the sides, tops, and backs for two of my builds - one a
cocobolo and the other a bloodwood guitar - both with Port Orford Cedar
tops. I never once needed to clean of the drum when using 80 grit or 150
grit. This is quite amazing for a drum sander. In my opinion, it is
without a doubt the best one on the market - possibly by leaps and
bounds.

Like all drum sanders, you can't remove a massive amount - especially if
you are using a fine grit. But I have no trouble taking of 1/32" (0.030") or
more with 80 grit or 1/64" at 150 grit. In fact, I have taken of 1/16"
before and never had a problem. I can easily thickness a whole back in
under a minute with no problem.

Lots of cabinet shops have switched too them - you could probably see it
in action. I honestly think that once you see what these things can do -
you will see no need for a wide-belt.

--
SimonSimonF38959.650162037

[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] As I think about it, with the open end I could try feeding sideways.    I worry about getting the scratches out, though. I've noticed that removing scratches from 80 grit on the thickness sander requires using 60 grit on the ROS.[/QUOTE]

I have an open ended Ryobi, I think 18/32 and have tried feeding sideways with less than good results (you must have it perfectly set up) so now I just send it thru angled as much as possible except for the last few passes. That's why my next will be a 24" drum. Probably that general or a comparable Grizzly unless I marry money and then I'll get a wide belt.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

[QUOTE=SimonF]I honestly think that once you see what these things can do -
you will see no need for a wide-belt. [/QUOTE]

Interesting viewpoint... there are some folks here who think in total opposite terms...that once you've gone to a wide-belt, you don't want to ever go back to drums.
Just goes to show that people find a way to get different things to work.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Howard, I don't avoid loading the paper

It's all about reducing heat in the wood. Dense, oily woods do not dissapate heat well and it can build even and especially with multiple light passes. Heat liqufies resins and oils and transfers it to the paper. Keeping the paper clean of build up and using both sides of the sander help. Let the wood cool if making several passes. Blowing dust off the roles will help if it in some way reduces heat build up, but It won't have any affect on heat in the wood and that's the problem area...not the rolls. Blowing dust off rolls will help kep them cleaner and therefore will aid that way. Whatever can be done to reduce heat in the wood is helpful.

Keep in mind that running a wide belt just means more belt to clean resin from...

I have the General, a 24" Grizley and a 25" Woodmaster so I have clean paper somewhere in the shop

I used to swaer by concentrated citrus cleaner for the paper, but this product is way better. I spray it on full strength and it melts the resin off..literally. Light brushing with a brass brush (not to hard or you remove grit) and wipe with a rag.

WOODCRAFT CARRY THIS PRODUCT?

Where you buying that stuff, Larry? TIA.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I found it at a local contractor hardware store. Maverick Hardware here in Eugene, OR and they don't advertise, are in the back of a vacant lot behind some old buildings, but the contractors line up... It should turn up on a 'net search.

I had a bad experience the one time I decided to feed a back plate sideways
into my Delta, trying the double pass option. I got some fairly severe gouges
carved near the edges. Running with the grain parallel to the drum and
hold-downs allowed the edges of the thin plate to curl up between the
hold-down and the drum. I think that the problem was made worse by
having part of the plate hanging out the open end, totally unsupported.

I have a new Powermatic dual-drum sitting in my barnyard waiting for me to
clear a path to the shop overhead door. Decided to go with it over the
Woodmaster because of the dual drums, hope that it works well.

Brook