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Interlochen Guitar Institute http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8205 |
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Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:08 pm ] |
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I just attended the event at interlochen that was all guitar and more guitar for 4 days. I want to report on this important event and put a bug in your ear for next year. In case you don't know, Interlochen is a small town in the woods in northern Michigan. The campus of interlochen has an arts high school where students from all over the world come to focus on artistic persuit. In the summer there are many musical camps, concerts and learning activities. The facilities are really extroardinary, with 2 huge concert halls, one outdors called the Bowl and one indoors called Corson auditorium, as well as several more intimate spaces. Most of the concerts were in a place called The Dendrinos Chapel. There are dormitories and small cabins where visitors stay. There is no shortage of well equiped classrooms for audio visual presentations. The faculty was John Wunch, Alex De Grassi, William Kanengiser, Bruce Dunlap, Emre Yilmaz, Brad De Roche, Gohar Vandenyan, Lee Dyament, John Stropes, Armin kelly and Dan Kelchak. A powerhouse faculty!! I set up my booth in the exhibition hall next to the cafeteria with a couple of other venders. I was there more for name exposure for my stringed instrument (violin family) business rather than trying to sell any guitars and I did make some good positive contacts and get one commission. ![]() I left my booth unatended a lot of time and felt it was very safe. Gary Zymnicki was next to me and had a very nice set of guitars. There was another guitar maker and Brad DeRoche from Strings By Mail, That was it. The vender room was really an afterthought by John Wunch and he did admit that he regrets not persuing this with a little more forthought. So next year could be much better. They left no time in the program for vender time, only lectures, all day, for for days. But we did get to see most of the players at our booths on their way to the cafeteria. I really can't give an exhaustive review of the 4 day event but can touch on my highlights. Here are some photos. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:13 pm ] |
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Gary Zimnicki Booth. He brought an assortment of guitars. Two acoustic archtops, an electric archtop, and two steel strings. Alex DeGrassi playing one of Gary's acoustic archtops. We had a nice intimate talk with Alex during a long slow period, We had him captive. Very nice guy and great all around player, not just fingerstyle mastery. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:33 pm ] |
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You can see my booth behind Alex. In the corner is a String bass I made. Gary Zimnicki has been making guitars since the 70's and has made hundreds of custom instruments. I learned a lot from him over the years. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:40 pm ] |
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I call this the "Fire Archtop". It is an electric archtop with laminated plates and has a fairly decent acoustic tone. I am honored that Gary trusts me to make laminated plates for quite a few of his custom electric archtops. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:43 pm ] |
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Author: | Mark Swanson [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:44 pm ] |
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Ken, that is really cool! I know of another chance for you to be a vendor also, I'll drop you an email and let you know. It's right in your neck of the woods, too! This would be on 9/16. I met Gary once, and he is a good friend of Don carter, a canadian builder from Sarnia that I also know. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:56 pm ] |
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Thanks Mark. Maybe you could make it next year, it is a great institute. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:03 pm ] |
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This is during a listening test of classical guitars. Armin Kelly brought some fine classicals to be played and heard. William Kanengiser and Gohar Vandanyan tried two guitars then switched. I have a bunch of important notes regarding what the players want, this could be a new topic if there is interest. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:10 pm ] |
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Bruce Dunlap gave a couple lectures that were the highlight for me. He taught me an invaluable lesson and allowed me to be as good as I choose on my instrument...profound! Can you play Chopsticks on the guitar? He gave a lesson in contrapuntal (counterpoint) which is simply playing two different parts at once. Something most guitarists avoid but if you work on it, will send your playing into the next level and beyond. Bruce Dunlap |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:22 pm ] |
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One more for now. John Stropes gave a great lecture on fingerstyle guitar history and technique. He had it well organized with video clips of many of the greats including Michael Hedges. Later that night he had a special video presentation and tribute to the great Michael Hedges an Interlochen graduate. Great stuff. John Stropes |
Author: | Jim Watts [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:53 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=KenMcKay] I have a bunch of important notes regarding what the players want, this could be a new topic if there is interest. [/QUOTE] That would be excellent Ken, Thanks for sharing. |
Author: | JBreault [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:06 am ] |
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Cool stuff Ken! Thanks for sharing. |
Author: | Jeanne [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:02 am ] |
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WOW Ken! Thanks for all the neat info and pics too! I might be interested in this the next time around ![]() |
Author: | Serge Poirier [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:11 am ] |
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Thanks Ken, great pics and information! |
Author: | CarltonM [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:42 am ] |
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Ken...Good stuff! Thanks. And, yes, what do players want? |
Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:29 am ] |
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Thanks for the report Ken. I actually had a classical guitar ready and wanted to take you up on your generous offer to the OLF members of taking guitars to the show. However, you said you had agreed to not compete with another person who was taking classicals already. Maybe next time. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:42 am ] |
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I think since this thread is moving along slowly I can just throw in the "what players want" right here. So here goes: [Edit note. The following statement was added for clarity: This information is for classical guitars and is not meant to be applied to other instruments] I can't say I speak for all players of course, this represents my impression based on these players and of course Armin Kelly who represents many makers and players. I am attempting to direct any maker towards things that are likely to lead to success in selling an instrument rather than anything that may or may not advance the guitar in a historical sense. Craftsmanship versus sound/playability: sound wins everytime. Craftsmanship is impressive and can get a foot in the door so to speak. It can grab the eye of a player and make him/her notice the instrument and try harder to like it. Sound and playability win in the end. The classical guitar world is very conservative, think black and white, think conservatively in your choice of binding, rosettes, etc. Cedar versus spruce: There is this notion that a spruce guitar is only a shadow if it's eventual self when it matures. Cedar is mellow but doesn't gain much over time. So if a player likes a guitar enough and it is spruce then it carries a "future value"... listen and learn my friends [wink]. Armin only likes European spruce but can't really tell the difference so make your guitars from plain old spruce and drop the first word unless it is European. [wink] Maple guitars don't sell. There are always exceptions but this is generally good advice. Right hand feel is critical to a good player. Bill Kanengiser likes a stiff feel and Gohar prefers less stiffness. |
Author: | Todd Rose [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:57 am ] |
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Ken, thanks for sharing this, and thanks again for your earlier offer to bring OLF member guitars to exhibit. A lot came up in my life that made it impossible for me to get an instrument to you (most notably a new baby), but I still greatly appreciate your generous offer. It's always fun for me, as well, to hear about goings on at Interlochen (since I went to school there, as you recall). This guitar institute sounds like a great new addition to their programming and I will make every effort to be there as an exhibitor next year. Thanks again. |
Author: | Jeanne [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:14 am ] |
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[QUOTE=KenMcKay] Cedar versus spruce: There is this notion that a spruce guitar is only a shadow if it's eventual self when it matures. Cedar is mellow but doesn't gain much over time. So if a player likes a guitar enough and it is spruce then it carries a "future value"... listen and learn my friends [wink]. Armin only likes European spruce but can't really tell the difference so make your guitars from plain old spruce and drop the first word unless it is European. [wink][/QUOTE] Ken, I want to personally thank you for this piece of information. It answered a question that I had filed away to ask friend who builds, but won't get to for some time. For me you answered my question perfectly! |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:26 am ] |
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Jeanne you are welcome. Keep in mind that the cedar spruce info is geared towards selling a guitar and not getting a particular sound that you are seeking. There are some beautiful cedar guitars of course. Robbie, too bad about that, I would have loved to show your guitar. I am from Colorado and when I get back for a visit I will look you up. Todd, I thought of you when I was on the campus. It must have been a great experience for you to go to school there. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:31 am ] |
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A lecture at the Interlochen Guitar Institute August 2006 given by Armin Kelly of Guitars International was called Hand-made Instruments: An overview of instruments and their features. This was a two session lecture where Armin gave a formal talk to begin and then professional players were asked to play several of the guitars he brought along from Cleveland. During the introduction Armin showed some bracing patterns of Torres, Hernandez, Rodriquez, Fleta, Hauser I, Fisher, Dammann, and Smallman and a few others. He then had some tonewood displayed including some Brazilian rosewood, cocobolo, some spruces and cedars. He made generalizations regarding their contribution to sound or marketability. He showed a strong preference towards rosewood and European spruce. Interestingly though the piece labeled European spruce looked suspiciously like Sitka. Next we listened to the guitars in in Dendrinos Chapel, an acoustic space that was very quiet and well suited for a listening test. Armin lectured from a dealers point of view but couldn't help throwing in some comments as a player. I listened from a makers point of view and what follows are my impressions. I hope they help any builders interested in making and marketing a handmade guitar. My impressions are also based on some personal conversations I had with Armin and Brad DeRoche. More on this later. During the first listening test in the Dendrinos chapel Armin brought out two guitars, both made by the Swedish maker Fredholm. Both were beautiful guitars with the same back and side woods but one spruce and one cedar top. They were alternately played by Brad and Gohar as we listened. Armin asked for general impressions first and then tried to get us to answer specifically about some things that we were to be paying close attention towards. These were balance, separation, sustain, quickness of response, blending (harmonic balance and clarity), color range (finger attack, timbre). |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:07 am ] |
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During the next session we listened to more guitars being played by Gohar and Bill Kanengiser. It was a good learning experience. Bill plays three guitars one a Humphrey another a Jacobson and one other I can't remember. I asked him if he preferred the Jacobson over the Humphrey since it has special intonation at the nut. His reply that that feature of his Jacobson was so important that he had the Humphrey re intonated like the Jacobson ![]() |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:21 am ] |
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More good stuff for makers. I hope. Players want a guitar that sounds good to him/her not just the audience. There has been an emphasis towards making a louder guitar using different techniques such as double top, stiff back and sides, thin top with lattice bracing etcetera. But Chances are a lot greater that your handmade guitars will appeal to more paying customers if you stick to pleasing the player first and formost. There was a very strong emphasis pointed towards the Hauser I pattern by Armin. Bill had a maker say to him once "I made this to sound loud to the audience not the player" after which he thought "I wan't it to sound good to me"! Even the best salesman can't sell a guitar if some basic criteria are not met. Learn to get these things by changing variables in your bracing and tonewood. Ballance: is one E louder than another up the fingerboard? Is the 6th string louder that the 1st etc. Note separation: Play a little counterpoint part or have someone play for you and listen to how two musical phrases (not notes) sound. Often a higher phrase will be louder and a good maker can control this. Quickness of response: Bill called this "bloom" and it is a huge factor. Quicker is not better, just different...learn to control this. For example I think spruce will give more of a BWAAA sounding low notes than cedar. This is a biggie and the choice of material can have a great impact, Color range: learn how a player attacks the string with the fingernail. Learn about using right hand techniques to change the timbre. Now try to control this with bracing. Words used to describe this are: bright, dark, brittle, harsh, tinny, tubby, soft, light... Blending: This is harmonic balance and I can't really claim to get much of a handle on this. It has to do with clarity of a chord. Can individual notes be heard. I am a little unclear on this, but it seems to be important. Random thought: Carbon fiber may be used against you as a maker. Trap doors are for makers not players. (having access to the inside) Adjustable necks are not even on the radar screen. Focus away from this. There is no "best" sound for all players so work on building your own "signature sound". A phrase used by Armin several times. Good luck in your building and persuit. |
Author: | CarltonM [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:16 pm ] |
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Very interesting stuff! Thanks, Ken. |
Author: | KenMcKay [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:44 pm ] |
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My pleasure Carlton. I went back and edited the first post where the subject reads What players want. I had to write that I am only writing about classical guitars up until now. We had a nice chat with Alex DeGrassi about steel string "fingerstyle" guitars but I can't say I got much useful information for builders. Alex played a nice Lowden and a Trugot. By way of metaphor, his lower strings were more like a tennis ball bouncing than a super ball. The low notes had certain lack of sustain that I think matched the higher end. Good bass violins and cellos also have this property. The strings were light and allowed him to bend the note without bending the string up or down. He showed us how to rock the left hand forward and backward very slowly to get that sound. Alex DeGrassi also uses the instrument to create percussion and there were some interesting resonances that he utilized "since they were there." One resonance was right midway on the shaft of the neck of his Lowden which he hit with the butt of his hand. The note it produced was probably below 70hz and could be clearly heard and felt in the back of the auditorium where I was sitting. He said he can only get that sound from that guitar and only in that tuning DADGBD. |
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