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Binding jigs
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8294		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  RCoates [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well after my post on gap filling I guess it's time to bite the bullet and buy or make a binding jig.

John Hall has got a good one at a great price but I think I'd prefer the Don Williams Fleishmen inspired Binding Jig. The trouble is I really don't want to build it if I don't have to. I think Craig Holden was building them but I can't seem to find his web site. Is he still around. Is anyone else building/selling these.

Any other thoughts on one jig verses the other? I also like the Taylor type jig sold by GuitarJigs.com My concern there is that the bit will need replacing. Now fine, they have them for $15, but what about 10 years from now? Is it a standard size bit that would be readily available? Perhaps I'll drop them an email and ask them.


Author:  Rod True [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:41 pm ]
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Ronn, I built my Larrivee/Taylor/GuitarJigs type in about 15 mins with very very minimal material. I had the trimmer and the bit is very standard. 1/4" downcut spiral. Works very well. Arnt also uses something very similar, and I'm sure he has used his for a lot longer than I have.

Here is a recent post from Roy O who built one the same as mine with some cool options that I will be adding.

Oh, and I think the downcut carbide bit would last you 10 years and if not, than there will probably be something better developed by than

Oh and here is Craig's website.Rod True38963.9902199074
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:30 pm ]
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Ron, although Don William 's jig works great, i had to depart from it for space issues, if you are in the same situation i'm in, i'd recomment Rod's jig or Arnt's, they index well from the sides and take less space for sure!
Author:  RCoates [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok now you have me thinking... Dangerous I know. So Rod have you ever had a problem with the jig being above bench height? When I look at the Taylor video they are doing all the routing with a machine midway between waist and knee height. It seems that that would be a bit more controlable or at least comfortable. Any thoughts?
Author:  Steve Saville [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ronn,
After going what you are going through and doing a lot of searching, I bought the tool from John Hall. I like it a lot.
I tried using a laminate trimmer with an angled base and had the same problems you do. It worked well on a couple of guitars and not so well on others. I built a Taylor style and i scared the $&%#@% out of me. It worked great until I got to the cutaway. My cutaway was too sharp and the box would not make the turn without hitting the support. For less radical cutaways and boxes without cutaways, it would work great. I much prefer John's tool. I do have a complaint about it - it is a bit heavy, so I lighten it up with a spring.
Let me know if you are interested in the Taylor style cutter of mine. I'll post/send you some pictures. I could easily send it too you with the bit if you'll pay the shipping.
(Too bad this didn't happen earlier - I drive up to Sequoia a couple of weeks ago.)
Author:  tippie53 [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
   Hi Guys
    This is an interesting section for me. I had springs on the original but found them to be a bit troublesome.
    I have a new design I am working on with an different articulating arm design. I am a big fan of simplicity and the fewer moving parts the better. I did discover the stew mac bit set is best though the LMI is fine.
    I do use mine though I am not an arch top builder. THanks for the input
john hall
Author:  GregG [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I bought the jig from John Hall as well, he did a great job putting it together, and it works great, I'm very satisfied.

Greg
Author:  Brock Poling [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:38 am ]
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I have virtually every binding jig known to man (with the exception of the GuitarJig set up) and they all work, but all have their warts.

I think the Ribeckke jig that John Hall sells is nice, I have probably used that one the most. However, I *** REALLY *** don't like presenting the guitar to the tool, I would much prefer presenting the tool to the guitar.

The Williams / Fleishman jig works great, but as stated it takes up a lot of room.

And... truth be told, on the top I frequently use a lam trimmer with a small donut freehand. It works surprisingly well.

... as far as bit sets go, for me at least the full set of LMI bits edges out the Stew Mac set (I have both). The LMI set has more bearings thus more adjustment potential, and with their cutter you can first cut the binding channels, then cut the purfling channel. You can't do this with the SM cutter set, the purflings have to come first with their's.

Author:  Serge Poirier [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:09 am ]
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I built mine with a bunch of recycled parts such as bolts, nuts, bearings and metal plates i can adjust for depth of cut, inspired by Arnt's famous jig, it allows me to route free hand while indexing from the sides, the only problem is, i can't draw a plan from parts i only found once and don't know the name of but if it can help anyone, here are a few pics of my thing a ma jigger!!





The results after the first passes





I prefer holding the router than approaching the guitar to it for the router kicks when i start it, i'd rather have it in my hands when it does.
Author:  Anthony Z [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:46 am ]
Post subject: 
I built the Ribbecke binding jig from LMI's plans and am very happy with it. If I weren't building Archtops I'd use the set-up Arnt Rian uses.

One thing I find very handy is the craddle that comes with Ribbecke/John Hall binding jig. It's a nice holder for sanding the top and back plates.
Author:  RCoates [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:54 am ]
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Thanx to everyone who replied here. You all have given me much to think about. I'm more than a bit interested in seeing and hearing about some other Taylor type jigs. So post your pics and stories. Particularly, is the above bench height location a problem with this type of jig?

SteveS
Thank you for your very generous offer. I was up quite late last night sitting in the shop designing(in my head) a Taylor type jig. So I may have a go at making one myself. That would be the cheaper route and if it doesn't work then I can buy one of John's or Craig's. Again thanx for the offer. Also feel free to stop by when you come through. I'm about 5 min off the freeway 99. Just give me a call first.
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh right, sorry Ronn, I forgot to answer your question.

My bench is about 34" high and I have done two guitars on the jig with no problems. The cool thing with this design is that you can mount it (screw it to a stud) low on a wall or clamp it to a lower cabinet drawer or etc.....
Author:  Steve Saville [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Ronn,
I'll be going to Yosemite for Thanksgiving if the weather looks good. If you drive down here, please let me know.

Here are some pics of the tool I made. It is not nuch to look at, but it is sturdy and works .
There is not much to it. I used shoulder bolts and nylon bushings as bearings. It has a nice large surface to rest on. If I where to make it again, I'd get the bearings as close to the cutter as possible. The white disk is Teflon. The clear is polycarbonate (Lexan)







I cut a hole in the back for the router base to fit into, then I lock it down with 4 wood screws with large washers.


Here is John's tool with a spring. It is just an assist so there is not so much force. It is a long spring attached to a shelf above.

Author:  Cameron Reddy [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
... as far as bit sets go, for me at least the full set of LMI bits edges out the
Stew Mac set (I have both). The LMI set has more bearings thus more
adjustment potential, and with their cutter you can first cut the binding
channels, then cut the purfling channel. You can't do this with the SM cutter
set, the purflings have to come first with their's.
[/QUOTE]

Can the LMI bearings be used on the SM cutter, or vice versa?

Why do some of you guys dislike first cutting the prufling channel?
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cameron, I don't have or use either the SM or LMI binding cutter bits, but I do remember that someone here, I think it was Tracey, mentioned that the bearings between the two are NOT interchangeable, one has one size of shaft, the other has another size.

As far as cutting the purfling channel first, if there is any tearout, you have no way to really fix it, other than making a new top, but if there is a small tearout when doing the binding channel first, you can always make the purfling line bigger or the purfling cut will eliminate the tearout. That's my belief on the matter anyway.Rod True38965.0611226852
Author:  Brock Poling [ Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:49 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Cameron Reddy] [QUOTE=Brock Poling]
... as far as bit sets go, for me at least the full set of LMI bits edges out the
Stew Mac set (I have both). The LMI set has more bearings thus more
adjustment potential, and with their cutter you can first cut the binding
channels, then cut the purfling channel. You can't do this with the SM cutter
set, the purflings have to come first with their's.
[/QUOTE]

No, they are not interchangable.


The only reason I can think of that you would want to cut your purf channel first is because you don't want the bearing to fall in the binding channel.      Besides that, I can't think of one.

Can the LMI bearings be used on the SM cutter, or vice versa?

Why do some of you guys dislike first cutting the prufling channel?[/QUOTE]
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:11 am ]
Post subject: 
I have gone away from my fixture back to hand held routing using this set up. I had probmes with deep cutaways using my binding fixture. This base and guide system makes hand routing a breeze see it at Luthiertool.com

Author:  Wes McMillian [ Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
I built a version of Dan Fobert's articulating arm from the LINT website. It works great, smooth, great control, and swings out of the way when not in use! My PC7310 stays mounted in it. With it swung against the wall, the carriage actually folds into itself and takes up about 6" depth.
Author:  RCoates [ Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=MichaelP] I have gone away from my fixture back to hand held routing using this set up. I had probmes with deep cutaways using my binding fixture. This base and guide system makes hand routing a breeze see it at Luthiertool.com

[/QUOTE]

Man! I really like that. any problems/difficulties with that set up? The two handed technique they show in the video looks pretty foolproof. It uses a regular down cut spiral bit right?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Yep 1/4" spiral down cut is provided with the base. you could use a straight flute cutter but it is set up to work with 1/4". Set up is the same as any roller guide system.
Author:  Roy O [ Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:53 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=RCoates] So Rod have you ever had a problem with the jig being above bench height? When I look at the Taylor video they are doing all the routing with a machine midway between waist and knee height. It seems that that would be a bit more controlable or at least comfortable. Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]

When using this jig I find that I like it sitting up about waist to chest height as I get a more even cut by watching to make sure the none cutting edge of the instrument is resting down on the guide, for example, if I'm cutting the top binding channel then I watch the bottom/side edge to see that it's staying on the guide. If it lifts off then it won't cut deep enough on the side of the instrument and you have to go back and route that area again.

One thing I really like about it is that it would be difficult to accidently route too deeply into the top or the back.
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