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| Round ramps or square ramps? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8374 |
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:36 am ] |
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I'm building my 2nd. This time I'm designing my own head instead of using a historical one. I've incorporated my initials in the shape, 'DMD', now I'm trying decide on square ramps or round ramps, I'm leaning toward square, but I would like some other opinions. Square or Round? 
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:39 am ] |
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round is nice and organic but I kind of like the art deco look of the square |
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| Author: | JBreault [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:43 am ] |
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I vote for the round one. |
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| Author: | Kirt Myers [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:46 am ] |
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I like round. Nice crest. |
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:49 am ] |
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Thanks Michael, art deco, I never thought of that way, thats good. Thanks Joe, Thanks Kirt, glad you like the crest too. |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:50 am ] |
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Well, while the round ones are nicely formed and traditional, I love the square bottom ones. They look like arched windows and the shape of the "sill" is pretty cool. |
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| Author: | MSpencer [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:54 am ] |
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They both look great, but I like the orginality of the square design. So, I would select the square for the unique quality. Mike |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:01 am ] |
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I like the round better, but it is not a huge difference for me. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:07 am ] |
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I think the square one makes the entire headstock look like a "M". That may be a subliminal design element for you. |
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:15 am ] |
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Thanks Steve, nice feedback, square, although uncommon, is really not too far off from tradition. Here is an 1888 Torres head with square ramps. Nice idea on the rosette, I've been working on one that replicates my crest pattern, but not much success, yet. 
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:17 am ] |
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Thanks Mike, Steve, Brock. Brock you're probably right about the subliminal thing. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:26 am ] |
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Square--it looks clean, and mirrors the "M" portion of your crest. |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:28 am ] |
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The square slot that is traditional is to end the ramps square to the nut, not slanted or with relief as you have added. This makes the look more contemporary. The main reason why many historical examples have square ramps is usually because the head angle is very shallow and the ramps needed additional length for string clearance which is less a problem when the head angle is greater. If you check out the head angle of most classical guitars that have rounded ramps the head angle will almost always be over 10 degrees while earlier guitars would use between 6-10 degrees. |
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| Author: | ajshafi [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:29 am ] |
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The left one is a chair back right...? +1 vote round if you havn't already decided. |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:39 am ] |
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Marc, you are right about my tradition comment, which I have edited. I took at a look at a bunch of pictures of pre-war Martins that I have in a folder and many have rectangular openings, squared at top and bottom. So, my memory is just not good about that. I do like the idea of mirroring architectural aspects of the instrument in the rosette. 
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:59 am ] |
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Thanks Carlton nice observation. Thanks Shawn, your right about the slant out of tradition, it is my own, but not too far from tradition, I think. I was thinking about squaring with the nut but with the angle of the slots I will be running very thin in the center. I had some trouble with strings clearing the head on my first guitar, that is one reason I wanted to try square. Not sure what you mean about relief, do you mean the bevel around the edge, the bevel I copied from 1978 Miguel Rodriguez Jr.. The 1888 Torres example with square slots, the head looks to be at an angle greater than 10 degrees. What do you think? 
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:02 am ] |
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Steve, I didn't notice until you pointed it out, the 1888 Torres is also squared on top. |
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:10 am ] |
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Thanks, ajshafi, I can safely assume you don't like the square, right? Does it really look like a chair back to you? The kind used at a football game? Haven't decided yet but leaning heavily toward square. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:55 am ] |
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I like them both. I use the rounded contour with my guitars -- mostly because it's fast and I perceive it as being easier and less likely to screw it up.  I'm so courageous! 
I've always liked the squared look. Hauser did it. Also, John Gilbert was the first one I've seen that did the slanted squared off channel, the way you did (not saying he was the first, just the first I've seen). Putting an angle to the bottom of a slot is done for a reason. It provides extra clearance for the 1st and 6th strings, where the break angle over the nut is the steepest and thus most likely to contact the headstock veneer. Speaking of which -- I really like the way you've beveled the headstock veneer on the inside of the slots. Very nice. Did you do this by hand or use a router bit or some such for this? Best, Michael |
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| Author: | Dave Anderson [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:13 am ] |
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I like the square one best.They both are very nice.
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| Author: | vpelleri [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:53 am ] |
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Looks to me like you can build one of each!
Nice clean work. |
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:11 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Michael McBroom] I've always liked the squared look. Hauser did it. Also, John Gilbert was the first one I've seen that did the slanted squared off channel .... like the way you've beveled the headstock veneer on the inside of the slots. Very nice. Did you do this by hand or use a router bit or some such for this? ... [/QUOTE] Thanks Michael, I was hoping to get your opinion. I can do the round ones in about 30 minutes, the square ones take me a couple of hours. Hausers I think are slanted in Courtnall's book, but they are just barely because the slots are nearer to vertical than mine. Fletas and Torres are square with the nut. I haven't seen Gilberts, I need to take a look. The upper portion of the headstock veneer is beveled using a chamfer(sp?) bit on a router table. The ramping and beveling on the the lower portion I do by hand with a chisel and waterstone nearby. My lower through slot is round, I'm trying decide if I want to square it parallel with the ramp. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:31 pm ] |
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I believe all of Torres' guitars, made for machine heads, used the square ramp but I have to say I prefer the look of the round ramp. That's probably because I've only done round ramps! Colin |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:03 am ] |
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Square...but dang both of those are nice. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:07 am ] |
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Marc, Here's a link that has a photo of a Gilbert guitar. The photo's not the best, but you can make out the shape of the tuner slot ramps. Best, Michael |
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