Official Luthiers Forum!

Some time back I bought some of the tool box drawer lining material to use as a pad on the work bench. Covered the whole top with it and it worked pretty well.

Then one day as I was spraying a guitar body, after letting the 1st coat set for a few minutes, I go back and have fish-eyes all over the top and back.
I tried a second coat but they popped right through.

Next day I took the body down to bare wood and started over, same thing happened. After the 3rd time I finally got it sprayed. This happened on two different guitar bodys.

Now fast forward a little, I was sanding on another body which I left lying on the bench for a couple of hours while I left the shop. When I got back and picked up the guitar I was working on, to my surprise, it was covered with oily looking spots in the same pattern as the pad material.

Oil? Silicon? I don't know but the material came off and the carpet went back down onto the bench. No more finish problems of this type have happened since it's removal.

While I was reading Hesh's post about Necks and seeing his photos reminded me of my delimma with this padding.
I won't use this padding anymore except in the tool-box, and maybe it's not all bad for wood. But I'm not taking any more chances.

Just thought I would pass this along.
D.L.Huskey38970.3729861111

D.L., This is what i use, it's got a perfectly flat side and all cushiony and a rough surface on the other side so it doesn't slip off the workbench, easy to store if they're in your way and easy to clean with the shop vac or a damp cloth.

Yeah, those soft, sticvky rubber pads look like they'd be ideal for us, but they are a nightmare waiting to happen. Silicone, or something similar, must be used as the release agent in their casting, which causes the fisheye problems. The plastisizers in the rubber itself can react with finish(the fresher, the more likely the reaction), also.

I think we've all tried them at some point <sigh>

I wouldn't even use them in my tool box, since if it is a silicone, it will get on the tools, and can transfer to yuor hands, which can lead to the most frustrating of al finish problems; the random fisheye.

I just buy large, fluffy towels, and use them on the benches; get the blems at one of those discount stores.

Thanks for the heads up on this... I used those in my dishes during brace carving, since it grips the top/back nicely while in the dish. I think I've done enough sanding since to eliminate any finish problems, but now I'll be double sure to get a clean fresh surface before I start FP'ing.

_________________
______________________________
Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I've heard it called plasticizer migration. It's what makes vinyl murder on nitro. Also makes that film inside your car windows.

_________________
now known around here as Pat Foster
_________________
http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I use these pads. In fact, I have a large roll of the stuff (bought it either at Costco or Sam's, don't remember which), and cut pieces of it off for use as needed.

I've heard of this problem before -- I believe it was Mario who brought it to my attention, cautioning me against the use of this material. Heheh, by that point I'd been using the pads for quite a while. No problems here. But then, I use french polish, so I'm wondering if 1) whatever it is these pads give off doesn't affect the fp process, or 2) perhaps I got lucky and the material I bought doesn't have the chemicals that are giving you guys problems?

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

No problems here either but if, as Mario mentionned, problems occured to people, i'll be more careful not to suggest those, there are so many other solutions out there anyway and fluffy towels sounds cool! Serge Poirier38970.4939351852

[QUOTE=Mario]I think we've all tried them at some point <sigh>

I wouldn't even use them in my tool box, since if it is a silicone, it will get on the tools, and can transfer to yuor hands, which can lead to the most frustrating of al finish problems; the random fisheye.

I just buy large, fluffy towels, and use them on the benches; get the blems at one of those discount stores.[/QUOTE]

This is what the forums are good for. If someone has a bad experience they can share the info and help the next builder. No matter how trivial the info may be.

It's been a year and a half or two since I used these pads. Had I saw Mario's warning about it, I would have been a lot more cautious about using them.

When I saw Hesh's photos it just reminded me why I don't use it for padding.

Some time back I placed a finished guitar on one of the same pads, and it was a couple of days before I went back to the shop. The pattern had transferred to the lacquer. I figured that I could polish it out. Nope it didn't work. Next I tried steel wool, and shot a new top coat...Still there. Next I finally completely stripped the guitar then refinished it. I gathered up my bench pads and threw them in the trash. Haven't used one since.

Al

Yes, FP shellac isn't much bothered by silicone and plastisizers, usually. I'd also suspect that not all of these pads contain it, but, how to tell...

Big 'ol beach towels never cause problems <bg>

The local farm and ranch had a sale on saddle blanket pads a while back back. Perfect size for a benchtop. I don't like the idea of mixing wood with plastic.

D.L. Thanks for starting this post. I was eyeing those pads pretty seriously. Now I know better. And in line with what Mario said, Ikea has big fluffy terry cloth bath mats that would be perfect.

Thanks for sharing guys.

_________________
Aoibeann

I also use an old bedsheet that I've folded up a few times so it will fit on my work bench. When it starts getting full of sawdust or the occasional drop of glue, I'll just refold it so a new side is out. Lasts a long time between washings this way.

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

Very valuable information, Thanks!

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

yeah, if it's silicone, it migrates, and has a half life of a gazillion years.

Mine are heading out to the dumpster tonight! Thanks

Similar results here. I noticed it was leaving a pattern on unfinished spruce that had to be sanded out. Taking no chances on that. Now I just lay a cotton towel in my sanding dish.



BobK38970.8113310185

I use the carpet sample pads. You can get em for $1 each at a carpet store. Two of them is about the perfect gutar size.

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

[QUOTE=Serge Poirier] Mine are heading out to the dumpster tonight! Thanks[/QUOTE]
Nooooo! Go back to the dumpster and retrieve them! Those thick pads like you were using are meant to go on the floor. Put 'em by your machines and work stations and give your tired feet someplace cushy to stand while you're working! It really helps.

[QUOTE=CarltonM] [QUOTE=Serge Poirier] Mine are heading out to the dumpster tonight! Thanks[/QUOTE]
Nooooo! Go back to the dumpster and retrieve them! Those thick pads like you were using are meant to go on the floor. Put 'em by your machines and work stations and give your tired feet someplace cushy to stand while you're working! It really helps. [/QUOTE]

Just in time Carlton, i was getting up to go and throw them out for tomorrow's trash and read your post!

Thank you my friend!

Serge

Dang, I was wondering about that. I have a walnut back sitting on one right now. I plan on FP'ing so hopefully I'm ok.
Thanks for the tip.

_________________
Horton, MI