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Binding routing help http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8541	Page 1 of 1

Author:	peterm [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:34 am ]
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I'm building a commissioned guitar with a sinkerwood top. A friend luthier warned me that when routing the sinkerwood tends to tear up and split pretty bad. I use the Stewmac binding router bit and it works pretty good with all tops I've worked on before... Anyone has any tips how to prevent a disaster?

Author:	TonyKarol [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:39 am ]
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I just routed the binding ledge on a curly redwood this morning .. climb cut is the only way to go, and do it all the way around (ie route the same direction the router bit is turning. Unfortunately you are using a straight cutter .. I only use downcut spirals with my jig. Oh, and this morning, no tearout whatsoever.

Author:	peterm [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:42 am ]
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Thanks Tony! I have routed 2 redwood tops with no problems but the sinkerwood feels totally different.... even wanted to tear and split when I was cutting it on my band saw...

Author:	Don Williams [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:52 am ]
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I would use a Gramil on that. LMI is the OLF Sponsor that sells them, and they are great tools. Could be some of the best money you'll spend ever on a tool.

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:13 am ]
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Shallow climb cuts the into runout first this will help avoid the chip outs.

Author:	John How [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:31 am ]
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Put a coat of shellac on first as well, that will help some.

Author:	SimonF [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:20 am ]
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Hi Peter, That friend would be me. The sinker redwood is very unusual to work with - it almost feels like the pages in a really old book, if that makes any sense. I would definitely leave it over 0.110" depending on how light your bracing is - even like 0.120". It will vibrate like crazy no matter how thick you leave it. In retrospect, I think the shellac idea is very good. Mainly, just go at an even, slow pace with the router. The shallow climb cuts is another good idea. If you do these three things, I don't think you will have any trouble at all. It really is neat stuff to work with. Can't wait to see the final product. God bless friend, Simon

Author:	peterm [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:52 am ]
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[QUOTE=SimonF] Hi Peter, That friend would be me. [/QUOTE] Some friend! you got me all sketched out!!

Author:	Serge Poirier [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:02 pm ]
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Another vote for the gramil here Peter, I don't own one yet but i will soon, too many people have great reviews on that tool to forget about it, it will definitely save you a major headache if sinker wood is how you say it is. Shellac is another fine idea, it helped me avoid tear out when i routed my binding/purfling channels on no 2.

Author:	Colin S [ Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:58 pm ]
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What the others have said, a gramil is the way to go, I always use one on every top I'm routing. It's a kind of insurance that will pay for itself very quickly. Then later (on a cheaper top!) try cutting the binding channel with the gramil and chisels only, very satisfying, if time consuming, to do once. Colin

Author:	James Orr [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:51 am ]
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Would anyone mind saying more about the gramil? I looked it up. It looks like a manual router of sorts. Set the blade height and depth, and it planes out the cavity. Is this idea correct? $46 isn't a bad investment. Does the blade come sharpened?

Author:	CarltonM [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:41 am ]
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[QUOTE=James Orr] ...it planes out the cavity. Is this idea correct?[/QUOTE] No. They only make a scoring cut, like a knife. Most folks seem to only use it to make a shallow cut before using a router, to avoid tearout. It is possible to make incremental cuts to full depth, if you're cutting the channel by hand. BTW, which gramil are you asking about--the Schneider gramil from LMI, or the Sloane type?CarltonM38981.8215162037

Author:	James Orr [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:32 am ]
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The one from LMI. What does the sloane plane do?

Author:	CarltonM [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:20 am ]
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The Sloane purfling cutter is designed differently, and was originally meant for cutting violin purfling. It has two blades, both removable, that are adjusted via set screws. It was and is used by guitar makers, though. The gramil (grah-MEEL) from LMI was adapted by Richard Schneider from a handmade example he was shown by his mentor in Mexico, and is, I think, more guitar-friendly.

Author:	burbank [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:40 am ]
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I have the Sloane type and it's not terribly guitar-friendly if you're planning to cut the entire channel with it. Works fine for scoring, though.

Author:	James Orr [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:25 am ]
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I've been planning on using my dremel since it's what I have and I'm not in the place where I could realistically have a bigger setup. I haven't been happy at all with the results, but I have the base and binding attach. from stew mac. Can anyone think of a better method than with the stew mac bit? Would a downcut bit work for me?

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