Get with John Watkins he got just what your looking for.
JJ, you bet me to it
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| What to use as a neck laminate? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8557 |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:13 am ] |
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I'm looking for something to get thin black striping into my neck when I laminate it. Can the large 6" x 36" fiber veneer sheets (the particular one I saw was from LMI) be used as a neck laminate? Is it strong enough to keep from separating? I haven't seen ebonized maple that large, so this looked like my best bet if it would hold up on the neck. Also, does it matter what glue is used...(regular titebond or poly)? Thanks -j. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:36 am ] |
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Check out John Watkins' site. He has a material called "fish paper" that he uses for neck laminates. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:37 am ] |
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Get with John Watkins he got just what your looking for. JJ, you bet me to it |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:50 am ] |
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I use dyed Costello-(boxwood). I get it from Certainly Wood. |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:22 am ] |
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j. - I've just begun to look into the same question. I haven't checked out John's product -- I hope he'll chime in here for the benefit of all of us as to exactly what his product is. Until I hear of several people who've used fiber veneer in necks and have seen those necks perform well over many years of service, I'll remain cautious about it. Maybe it doesn't matter with such thin laminations of the neck being made of that material, I don't know, but fiber has no grain and is a much weaker material than wood. LMI also carries what they call "colored veneers" (a separate product from their "fiber veneer sheets"). Chris Herrod tells me these are dyed holly (pressure dyed so the color goes all the way through). It seems to me that holly veneers would be just fine as layers in a laminated neck. I'm getting some of that to use in a couple of necks I'll be making soon -- unless someone here warns me soon with some compelling reason why that would be a bad idea. Quite a while back, a furniture maker friend of mine had some big boards of holly left over from a project that he wanted to unload for a discounted price. I thought it would be cool to make some instruments out of it, so I went on the forum I was hanging out at then and asked for opinions on using it for backs, sides, and necks. Several experienced builders (including Mario, if I'm not mistaken) said they thought it would make good guitars and good necks; I think some mentioned guitars they were aware of with holly necks. I bought the holly and have it stored for future use. Personally, I've come to the opinion that most reasonably stable and reasonably strong woods can make perfectly good necks if handled properly. Anyway, if holly can make a good neck on its own, then it should certainly be fine as veneers within a laminated neck. BTW, I put carbon fiber in all my necks. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:40 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Todd Rose] j. - Until I hear of several people who've used fiber veneer in necks and have seen those necks perform well over many years of service, I'll remain cautious about it. Maybe it doesn't matter with such thin laminations of the neck being made of that material, I don't know, but fiber has no grain and is a much weaker material than wood. [/QUOTE] Pretty much every archtop builder on the face of the earth (providing they use the dual black line look) uses two black lines of valconized fiber between their maple lams. If it's good enough for Bennedetto, it should be good. |
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| Author: | John Watkins [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:51 am ] |
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The stuff on my site is vulcanized fiber, also known as fish paper. It's the same thing that the archtop builders, including BB, have been using in their necks for who knows how long. I've never had a problem with it, despite sometimes using quite a lot in a single neck. 
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:52 am ] |
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John, How large are the sheets you're selling? I couldn't find it on your site to figure out how much I need. Thanks. -j. |
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| Author: | John Watkins [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:33 am ] |
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Jerrod, They're 6" x 36". Let me know if you need a different size. Thanks, John |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:57 am ] |
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Thanks, John. What is best to laminate those with? Titebond, Poly, other? -j. |
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| Author: | John Watkins [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:13 am ] |
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I've only used titebond and CA. Both work well. |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:42 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Pwoolson] Pretty much every archtop builder on the face of the earth (providing they use the dual black line look) uses two black lines of valconized fiber between their maple lams. If it's good enough for Bennedetto, it should be good. [/QUOTE] Ah, so there you go, the evidence is in.  Ya learn something new every day. Thanks, Paul and John, for the education. Now, what's vulcanized -- has Spock done the mind meld with the stuff or what??
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:51 am ] |
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Is this "fish paper" available in various thicknesses? |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:45 am ] |
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Just placed an order. Thanks for all the info. Very helpful. -j. |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:06 pm ] |
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Paul/John, I didn't know vulcanized fiber/fish paper existed (duh me). I have been using veneer. For a brown line - walnut veneer for black lines - black dyed pear. Seems to work well for me. BTW: John - sharp looking neck! |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:16 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Anthony Z] for black lines - black dyed pear. [/QUOTE] Where do you get the black dyed pear? |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:22 pm ] |
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Exotic woods in Burlington Ontario is where we (me and AZ) get the black stuff .. usually its between 22-30 thou depending on the batch. A&M in Cambridge Ontario has black dyed as well .. I would figure that most good hardwood shops that sell veneers should. Its about 6 bucks a sq ft., comes in sheets about 5-6 inches wide, 9-10 feet long. I use it all the time in necks, and to make custom purfling lines/patterns. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:34 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Anthony Z] for black lines - black dyed pear. Seems to work well for me. [/QUOTE] Sounds like a hillbilly thing... "Hey there, Billy Bob." "Hey there Bobby Ray." "Say, Billy Bob, you been eatin' those black dyed pears 'aven't you?" "Ow'd you know that Bobby Ray?" "Y'all got those black lines b'twixt yer teeth agin'." 
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:55 pm ] |
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Too funny Don
Tony the other place I have been getting black dyed pear veneer (and other specialty veneers) is Unicorn Universal here in Toronto (which luckily for me is a 15 min drive away). The best selection of specialty veneers I've seen is A&M in Cambridge, Ontario. They also sell a lot of tonewoods and will ship to anywhere in the world. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:38 am ] |
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In the U.S., dyed veneer can be found here: http://www.wood-veneers.com/index1.htm |
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:42 am ] |
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I get mine at Woodcraft. Al |
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