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Planning stages of number two...
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Author:  Sam Price [ Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I want to make a Cittern, with the intention of making an instrument tonally between a guitar and a mandolin (#3 will most likely be an acoustic bass!!!)

So...there's a lot of thinking and drawing up to do...

For comforts' sake, I will design it with an OM guitar body size. The teardrop size is lovely, but having a mando with that shape proves awkward playability!!!

The only thing that draws a blank in my own mind is the bridge. I don't want to use a tailpiece, just a normal guitar bridge. Would I have to design the bridge similar to a twelve stringer? Perhaps the tailpeice would be easier..

I also imagine that the neck would have to be extra strong to handle the ten strings.

Then there's the bracing....

Of course, I may just chicken out and just build a guitar using Cumpiano's book for guidance...

Your thoughts on this would be really appreciated.

If anyone has any plans I could pore over, I would be rather chuffed.



Sam Price38990.2584375
Author:  Dave White [ Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sam,

I recently finished a guitar cittern for Gavin Davenport of the band Heckety and documented the build on my website here:



The first things you have to think about are scale length and tuning (this will let you think about string gauges and overall tension) and then the body size/design. I decided on a Grand Concert size (which is close to your OM idea) with 16 frets clear of the body and a 24.9" scale length as that's what Gavin plays.

As for the bridge I went with five holes pinned with each pair of strings in each hole:



Neck design is going to depend on the string tension to some extent.

If you can get down to Hughenden Valley at any time I'd be happy to talk you through design etc. Or email/pm me.
Author:  Sam Price [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Dave. That is one sweet instrument.

another question; does your customer play in a variety of tunings? I'm endeavouring to enable the instrument to play in at least 5 different tunings, with exception to the octave mando tuning! (G d a e' a')

Author:  Dave White [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:00 am ]
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[QUOTE=Sam Price] Thanks Dave. That is one sweet instrument.

another question; does your customer play in a variety of tunings? I'm endeavouring to enable the instrument to play in at least 5 different tunings, with exception to the octave mando tuning! (G d a e' a')

[/QUOTE]

His main tuning is GCGCD, but he also uses GDGCD and GCFCD. I've played it in FCGCD as well!! It's a well known fact that there are as many different cittern tunings as there are cittern players.

Go with lighter strings and these all move up to ADADE, AEADE, ADGDE and GDADE - this last one being a 4 string bouzouki tuning with a high E string added.

Or you can go the other way with a 4 string bouzouki tuning with a low C added - CGDAD.

Confused yet?

As I say once you've decided on your scale length you can work out the tunings you want and pick string gauges accordingly. In fact if you make a couple of different nuts you can change tunings and string gauges as the mood takes you and play them all on the same instrument - but not at the same time

Which 5 tunings did you have in mind?Dave White38990.4220601852
Author:  Sam Price [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Well let's see for starters...

DGDAE
GDADA
GCGCG    
GDGDG

Would like to squeeze in a C and another D tuning too...    
Well, I just want to be able to experiment!!

Loads of different gauges etc is good advice.

With the bracing, am I right in saying that a heavier brace structure is needed for the top?
Sam Price38990.48375
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Sam, i can't wait to see what you will build, it will be interesting to see what you'll choose as appointments for no 2, keep us updated on your progress please!
Author:  Sam Price [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Serge....I don't know if any of you professional luthiers do this, but I can actually "see" the finished product in my mind's eye.

It's all the technicalities and learning that is gonna slow things a bit!!!Sam Price38990.4902430556
Author:  Dave White [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:20 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Sam Price] Well let's see for starters...

DGDAE
GDADA
GCGCG    
GDGDG

Would like to squeeze in a C and another D tuning too...    
Well, I just want to be able to experiment!!

Loads of different gauges etc is good advice
[/QUOTE]

Sam,

With those tunings you might be better off with the shorter scale citterns - around 23" scale length. You'll have to adapt this to a guitar shape.

[QUOTE=Sam Price]With the bracing, am I right in saying that a heavier brace structure is needed for the top?[/QUOTE]

Personally I wouldn't. Like any instrument you want it to be as responsive as possible - too heavy bracing and you will have a very stable . . but boring sounding instrument. You can see the bracing I used on the build on my website and that instrument had 230lbs string tension. it sounds wonderful.

The trick is picking the string gauges to give enough tension for the sound and top but not too much for the neck and bridge. Double course strings mean you can have lower tension and still get a good sound and feel when you play. I suspect you could pick strings at around 200lbs overall tension that would sound very good.

The other thing you have to decide is if you want unison or octave pairs of strings. Octaves give you a lot more problems in terms of intonation.Dave White38990.5568402778
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:57 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Sam Price] Serge....I don't know if any of you professional luthiers do this, but I can actually "see" the finished product in my mind's eye.

It's all the technicalities and learning that is gonna slow things a bit!!![/QUOTE]

Sam, i'm far from being a professionnal but i'm a bit like you, i can feel where my project is heading, i have an overall idea of what i want to achieve and i work/plan as i go so i'm open to sudden changes during the course of my building! I'll probably be able to plan way ahead of time when i have a few more under the belt!
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