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smoothing guitar sides...how do you do it
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Author:  John Kinnaird [ Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:27 pm ]
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I am curious about how you guys, and gal, smooth the inside and outside of the guitar sides after they are bent. I am way too old school and need some updating. Right now I use a scraper. When sharp it works well enough, certainly gets everything nice and flat and eliminates the wrinkles caused by bending but I seriously doubt that Martin or Collings or any of the other high end high production shops scrape their sides. I have been thinking about one of those power sanders that looks like a rolling pin, essentially a sanding drum between two handles. There are other possibilities. So what do youall do?

John
Author:  John How [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:20 am ]
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John, I have one of those rolling pin style sanders but I haven't tried smoothing the side. So far I use it to shape the neck & heal. It's pretty aggresive but perhaps with some finer paper and a light touch it would work. Maybe I'll give it a try.

I scrape too
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:33 am ]
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I do it by hand, scrapers and sanding blocks, but what I'd really like is a nice wide belt sander to do it. Personally, I wouldn't use a pin/drum sander on a convex curve; they'll work great for the waist, but drums just loooove to make smooth, fair curves go all bumpy. Means they're great for shaping molds, not so great for shaping bending forms/outside edges of electric guitars, unless you've got a robosander and a template to follow.
Author:  Dickey [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:55 am ]
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Scraper, specifically a six inch jointer blade, PC's Speed Bloc Sander, a quarter sheet sander, foam sanding block covered sometimes with 220 grit paper.

I know Hoffman uses a flap sander in a drill press, especially for the inside of the rimset.
Author:  Tim McKnight [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:59 am ]
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I use a 5" DeWalt RO sander. I sand my sides to 220 prior to bending them. After they are bent I only need to knock the fuzz off again from the grain raising. It's a whole lot easier doing the bulk of the sanding in the flat compared to sanding [thickness sander] scratches out of the bent sides.

I would be leary of the sanding drum and flap sanders as all of the sanding schedules would have to progress through several grits to at least 220 whereas the RO is able to progress much wider grit jumps than in line sanding.
Author:  Colin S [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:15 am ]
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I've got to agree with Tim. I get as much smoothing done before bending again I use a 5" RO, mine being Bosch to 300, and of course use the minimum water in the bending process. A quick rub with a 300 grit on a hard foam block to knock off the fuzz. And Roberts your mother's brother!

I don't like the idea of using any power system on my bent sides.

Colin
Author:  Dickey [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:05 am ]
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You guys, darn it, I just bent up some Sapele and now I learn I should have sanded it first..... No telling what you'll learn on the forum anytime you log on. I think I'll bend them back straight, sand and rebend... of couse I'm joking. I did that on half a rosewood guitar once, you just don't need two left sides.... grin.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:20 am ]
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[QUOTE=Dickey] You guys, darn it, I just bent up some Sapele and now I learn I should have sanded it first..... No telling what you'll learn on the forum anytime you log on. I think I'll bend them back straight, sand and rebend... of couse I'm joking. I did that on half a rosewood guitar once, you just don't need two left sides.... grin.[/QUOTE]

Two years a go I was experimenting with some low grade RW and Maple and did the same thing. The bad part is I bent on an iron back then. I trimmed to shape before bending and whole ball of wax. You don't want to try to reverse bend Maple. Don't ask me how I know.
Author:  LanceK [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:21 am ]
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IM with Tim too, I use my ROS, sand to 220, then bend, then I touch up with the ROS again after word.

test editLanceK38384.3324421296
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:33 am ]
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I tried three times to edit my last post but I keep getting a page disply error when I post edit.. Anyway I use a scraper and a 1/2" thick closed cell foam pad and 1500-2400 micro-meshMichaelP38383.5679861111
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:36 am ]
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I've read any number of times how some of the big boys sand their sides flat on a stationary 6" belt / disc sander. I've never worked up the nerve to try that. Leave your sides for a millisecond too long on that hungry belt, and you're starting over! I use a Porter Cable speed bloc 1/4 sheet sander.
Author:  Paul Schulte [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:52 am ]
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I use a regular old Sandvic scraper for the rough part inculding inside and outside of waist. For final sanding and finish sanding I have a 2" piece of pvc pipe with semi-stiff foam warapped around it. I just take a strip of whatever grit I want to use, wrap it around the pipe and sand away. Works especially well around the waist, but I use it to sand the entire sides. Works great wet sanding the finish also.
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:23 pm ]
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I do sand the sides before bending to 220 grit, but after the sides are bent there are irregularities that need attention. That and the cooking out of resins that stain the surface of the wood. Maybe I bend too hot.

Do you think that Santa Cruz or Martin et. al actually use the stationary sander? I would be very much afraid of overdoing it. And then, if they do use that for the convex surfaces, what about the concave surfaces and what about the inside surfaces?
Author:  PaulB [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:10 pm ]
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I also sand to 220 before bending. After bending I have an assortment of molding offcuts with various curved profiles. I just stick some garnet paper to them with double sided carpet tape. Great for sanding the waist and cutaways.

Never occured to me to sand the insides too <g>


Author:  Don Williams [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:21 pm ]
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I sand well before bending also, but then I take the rim to my edge sander and oscillating spindle sander to clean up any waviness in the sides. Anything I can't get with those tools gets cleaned up with a scraper.
Author:  Matt Gage [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:57 pm ]
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My mentor, Tj Thompson has one of those rolling pin sanders... I want one, does anyone know where I can order one?

T.I.A.
Matt

p.s. Colin I love the "roberts your mothers brother"
good stuff.
Author:  John How [ Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:22 am ]
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Here you are Matt, Rolling Pin I just got one not long ago. I also bought an airpower inline drill to turn it although I think an electric gives better control of speed. These things can be real aggressive so an easy touch is required.

By the way there are two sizes smaller rolling pinJohn How38384.3511689815
Author:  Matt Gage [ Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:16 pm ]
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Thanks John.

Author:  JJ Donohue [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:23 pm ]
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I recently bent curly cherry sides. Before bending, I sanded both sides smooth with 220 grit using a ROS. I spritzed them lightly and wrapped each .080" thick side in aluminum foil and bent them at arounf 290*.

After bending, the figure in the wood was raised quite a bit...much more than I've seen with other woods in my limited experience. Now I have the job of scraping and sanding them smooth. I was wondering if this was caused from too much water or whether any water at all is needed for cherry in the bending process.

Is there any insight as to what bending conditions work best to avoid what I describe. TIA
Author:  Bobc [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:11 pm ]
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JJ I think it would help to wet the sides and let dry during the sanding stage, thus raising the grain and then sand prior to bending. That would keep help keep the grain raising to a minimun during bending.
Author:  Tim McKnight [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:03 pm ]
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Hi JJ:
I have bent quite a few sets of cherry and never had that problem. I just lightly spritz both sides with water but I don't wrap them in foil. I would suspect the problem is the foil is trapping and retaining the moisture.
Author:  Matt Gage [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:20 pm ]
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I`m with Tim on this one. I use very little water, a very light spritz. I have noticed that even that small amount dos`nt completely evaporate from between the slats, even after the second heat cycle. If you let it sit for a while after bending, you can get water stains.
I have never used a foil wrap.

Matt
Author:  Paul Schulte [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:09 am ]
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I'm bending some cherry for the first time tonight and was figuring on just a spritz of water and was debating whether to wrap it or not. Thanks.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:29 am ]
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Thanks guys...I appreciate the advice. Some great and speedy comments for me to ponder. As far as building lately, I'm doing a lot more pondering and far less building.

...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn recently

Author:  Dave-SKG [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:37 am ]
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I lick it over and over until it's smooth. Takes a while but eventually you get there. Sometimes you get splinters and that is nasty.
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