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| Fret saw too narrow? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=9071 |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:49 pm ] |
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I was getting frustrated the other day, working on my first classical. After getting the whole thing finished and strung up, I discovered the action was too low (with an already tall saddle). Live and learn. Off come the frets, out come the planes, and down comes the fretboard (2mm on the bass side). This makes the fret slots pretty shallow up around the 12th fret, so out comes the Stew-mac fret saw (the one that comes with the mitre box). (This is all going to be easier on number 2, I promise myself.) While trying to recheck the action using a height shim at the 12th fret (replay the live and learn comment, I notice that I can't get a fret with mashed tangs to sit down in the fret slot. Measuring, I find that the fret tang is 0.023" as advertised. The saw, on the other hand, including the tooth set, comes to 0.022". I'd think that the slop of sawing by hand would give me that extra 0.001", but the fret just does not want to drop in the slot. Is this blade narrower than it should be? Anyone here had the same reaction before, or found a different fret saw that they are happier with? Jim |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:55 pm ] |
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Jim, i think that you should not worried about the 0.001" missing, on the contrary, you want the slot to be a little narrower than the kerf of the blade so that the fret sits in tighly and hear the "pop" when pressing the fret in IMHO. |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:51 pm ] |
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Heh Serge - this is a fret with the tangs mashed flat - I WANT it to drop in the slot, or at least be no tighter than an easy press fit. JK |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:56 am ] |
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the saw is set so that the fret is a tight interference fit and intended to be hammered or pressed in. i doubt thst you can mash the tang barbs to zero flatness; the metal is just not that malleable. if you want to drop them in, you can widen the slot with your dremel in the router base, or grind the barbs and sand the tang thinner. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:05 am ] |
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Out of curiosity why do you want that loose of a fit. I don't know if your fretboard is ebony, IRW or what but as your fretboard drys with age the slots get looser I would worry with the fret popping up later in life. I understand that the tangs have been mashed but even mashed they are still wider than the web of the fret by several thousands. you might try Stewmac's tang remover to file off the tangs 
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:10 am ] |
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[QUOTE=MichaelP] Out of curiosity why do you want that loose of a fit. I don't know if your fretboard is ebony, IRW or what but as your fretboard drys with age the slots get looser I would worry with the fret popping up later in life. I understand that the tangs have been mashed but even mashed they are still wider than the web of the fret by several thousands. you might try Stewmac's tang remover to file off the tangs [/QUOTE]
I just wanted to get a test fret into the fret slot to check the action, not for final installation. I was surprised that I couldn't get one to drop in more easily after flattening the tangs. I'll have to file away at one a little, I guess. The set on this saw may be fine for regular fretting - I don't know. The board I was using was pre-slotted before I had to go in and deepen the slots, so my original fretjob was based on the presawn slots. I haven't fretted a board which was sawn by hand with this particular saw yet. It seemed to me that the saw set should fall somewhere in between web width and the total width of web+tangs. This saw seems to be narrower than the web. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:49 am ] |
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I would seek out a different blade for your saw. It sounds to me like it is too narrow. If I were using a .023 tang wire +barbs, I would like my slots to be around .024" Indian rosewood, up to .025" or more with Brazilian or ebony. If you try to force a .023" tang in to a .022" slot you had better be using a good double action truss rod to get out all the backbow you would end up with. I will sometimes widen a slot freehand with the back edge of a fresh Xacto blade. This way I can also leave the ends a little tight to lessen the chance of them popping up without adding too much compression across the whole length. If you were going to try this method I would recommend cutting some slots in a scrap piece for a practice run first. My saw cuts about a .022" slot, which works well for me because my wire typically has about a .020" tang. |
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| Author: | Marc [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:20 am ] |
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If your trying to check your action according to David S. OA I or II, then just get a little needle file and file the tang completely off and continue to narrow until it drops-in. Doesn't matter how loose it is. |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:06 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Marc] If your trying to check your action according to David S. OA I or II, then just get a little needle file and file the tang completely off and continue to narrow until it drops-in. Doesn't matter how loose it is.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. I just managed to turn it into a more complex, angst-ridden process. 
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