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| I’d appreciate your opinions..... http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=9208 |
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| Author: | Little Big Man [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:21 am ] |
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I'm considering purchasing a Taylor 814ce limited. It's used, in excellent condition. It has cocobolo back/sides, sitka spruce top. Very nice case included. They are asking $2500. Opinions wanted, 1) This guitar in general 2) Cocobolo wood 3) Taylor guitars in general 4) Anything else you might think relevant Thanks In Advance! |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:30 am ] |
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taylor is one of the high quality factory brands and has been a consistent innovator. cocobolo makes very fine instruments indeed. do you like the guitar? use your hands and ears. negotiate a lower price! |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:31 am ] |
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Based off the typical retail for this model guitar new in my area, $2500 is $500 over new price but that is not for the limited edition. I would check some retail stores in your area. Try to make a deal and judge from there. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:52 am ] |
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1) This guitar in general - It is a great guitar, higher end from a respected builder. 2) Cocobolo wood - Great wood choice for looks and tone. 3) Taylor guitars in general - See #1 4) Anything else you might think relevant - You could buy a new one for less. They do limiteds every year. $2000 is about right for a used one. I owned one and sold it on ebay for $2300, about what I paid for it new. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:58 am ] |
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I'll cast the unpopular vote here. I'd pass on it if I were you. $2500 is WAY too much for a factory guitar. The lable "limited" usually mean squat, except that they raise the price. For $2500, you could hire one of the fine builders on this forum to build you a custom guitar that is made entirely by hand and to your specs. |
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| Author: | JBreault [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:16 am ] |
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I think $2500 was the retail price (or close to it)for this model new...I would pass. I'm with Paul in thinking for that kind of money, you could have a very nicely made handcrafted instrument from one of the builders on this forum. Then it would truly be a custom, limited edition instrument.  |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:19 am ] |
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Beat me to it Paul! For that sort of money, or very little more, you could get a custom built guitar from quite a few of the great builders here on the forum. Taylor are great guitars for factory made ones (I prefer the sound of Larivee and pre-1969 Martin) But they are just that production line albeit the very best of their type. But if it is the one for you then only you can decide if it is worth the money. Personnally I'd pass. Colin |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:21 am ] |
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Gee, usually I hate to agree with Mr. Woolson,  BUT.....
He's pretty much right on with this. No disrespect intended toward Taylor guitars (which I like), but $2500 can get you a new guitar that will probably sound and play better. It may not give you as many frilly things for that price, but the guitar will be better. Don't get me wrong, the 8 series of the Taylors are fine instruments, they're just not the same as a handmade instrument. If it were me, I would check out the websites of some of the builders here on the OLF, and see what they're doing and how their pricing is. I would ask for phone numbers of past customers so you can call and ask their opinions of the guitars. As to your question about cocobolo, it is a fine tonewood. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:25 am ] |
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I agree with Joe. if you are willing to fork $2500 down for this guitar used PM me and I will or I would, and I am sure most of use would be happy to quote you a build price, that I think you would be happier in the long run with. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:33 am ] |
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Play a factory-built guitar side by side with a Woolson, or any of the more experienced custom builders' guitars and make the decision for yourself. I've played guitars built by at least 10 of our forum members and all were superior in sound and set-up to any Martin or Taylor that I ever played. Most importantly, a custom hand-made guitar is built for your style and preference in every aspect of sound and playability expectations. For you own benefit, contact one of these guys and investigate the process. If nothing else, it will be a great learning experience. Disclosure...I don't sell guitars! |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:48 am ] |
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I echo the above sentiments. I have played many, many guitars in my 40 years of playing and at that price range, there are so many good options. Taylors are terrific instruments, but, imho, lack the magic feel and sound you can get in others at that price. My advice is to play a lot of instruments and get a feel for the possibilities. |
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| Author: | John Elshaw [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:23 am ] |
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I have a 7-series Taylor I bought because I wanted a good acoustic, however I am mostly a classical player and bought it as my sole steel string guitar. I paid considerably less (more than $1,000 less) for my Taylor than the $2,500 you were quoted. If I was going to spend a bit more, I would have bit the bullet and bought a handmade guitar. I know the guitar would have been better, hands down. One reason I bought the Taylor is because I knew I was going to be amplifying it, and that automatically puts most guitars on even ground as far as sound. Volume, tone, etc is now controlled by a preamp instead of the builders specs. I couldn't justify paying an extra $1,500 for a handmade when I knew I'd be plugging it in most of the time. Plus, I knew it would only be a matter of time before I built a steelstring in addition to all the classicals I've built. As far as setup, I've done a bunch to my Taylor to make it play as good as any handmade guitar. If you go with the Taylor, I'd recommend you have it setup professionally anyhow, it makes a huge difference. I guess if I were in your boat and I was going to spend $2500, I'd buy a handmade. If you really want a Taylor, you can spend considerably less for the same sound, and if you have it setup professionally, it should play as easy as any handmade guitar. Let your ears make the choice, not the bling. Good luck! John |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:25 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Pwoolson] I'll cast the unpopular vote here. I'd pass on it if I were you. $2500 is WAY too much for a factory guitar. The lable "limited" usually mean squat, except that they raise the price. For $2500, you could hire one of the fine builders on this forum to build you a custom guitar that is made entirely by hand and to your specs. [/QUOTE] I agree with Paul. What ever "it" is, it is a factory guitar. For the same or a little more you can hire some one on this forum and get a much nicer, custom made, guitar. Given that Why even consider the Taylor? 
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| Author: | James Orr [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:35 am ] |
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I wouldn't say it's an inadequate guitar, but priced too high. It's probably priced that way because Taylor marketed cocobolo as a super wood. I honestly don't know though. I really like Taylors but they don't do for me what others do. I like a more contemporary sound, so I have an affinity for the Taylors, but I prefer Avalons to them. BUT I think what I'd do is find another guitar in that price range, like a Kragenbrink (at least for another month). Check out Lance's building blog! Kragenbrinkguitars.com.
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:36 am ] |
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You know, I've been thinking about this for a bit. I think there is a grave misconception about "LIMITED" and "CUSTOM SHOP" instruments. I got in a debate with a very famous store owner who will remain nameless (so don't even ask). He was arguing with me about the price of my guitars. He said "why would someone pay $x for this guitar when they could have one of my "CUSTOM (insert store owner's name here)MARTINS" for the same price. And how many of these "custom" guitars were made? 100s maybe thousands. I wanted to respond to him, "and why on earth would someone pay that for a factory guitar when they can have a hand crafted custom guitar for the same price". But instead I bit my tounge and walked out. But this guy honestly thought that since his name was on the Martin label, they were a custom guitar and hand made and all that jazz. The only thing custom was the stinkin' label. |
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| Author: | peterm [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:48 am ] |
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I agree with Paul as well as many others here.... for $2500 you can get yourself a much better quality custom made guitar from someone on this forum...
some may even have some available! |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:59 am ] |
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I know It sound like we are just trying to drum up some work for our self, but it is true you get a better musical instrument for your money. Plus with most of us you get to pick the woods and apointments. The down side of course is waiting for it to be built |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:14 am ] |
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[QUOTE=James Orr] I wouldn't say it's an inadequate guitar, but priced too high. It's probably priced that way because Taylor marketed cocobolo as a super wood. [/QUOTE] Or, perhaps, they were thinking that some would come back due to cracking? It would be an interesting question for the membership here, how many cocobolo guitars have cracked on them? Anyway, the music store here in our town had an absolutely beautiful limited edition cocobolo Taylor which had to be returned to the factory due to the pretty wood developing cracks. 
A heart-breaker for sure. Steve |
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| Author: | John How [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:36 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] [QUOTE=James Orr] I wouldn't say it's an inadequate guitar, but priced too high. It's probably priced that way because Taylor marketed cocobolo as a super wood. [/QUOTE] Or, perhaps, they were thinking that some would come back due to cracking? It would be an interesting question for the membership here, how many cocobolo guitars have cracked on them? Anyway, the music store here in our town had an absolutely beautiful limited edition cocobolo Taylor which had to be returned to the factory due to the pretty wood developing cracks.
A heart-breaker for sure. Steve[/QUOTE] I hear ya Steve, I had a Cocobolo guitar that cracked up like crazy, just fell apart.......when it was ripped out of my hands by the buffer and slammed into the concrete floor  |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:40 am ] |
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Coco cracking - none .. braz rw .. dont ask. just look at R Taylors pricing for upgraded tonewoods .. premium flame koa, koa top, ADDS about 3000 US to the base price of 4300. Extreme rip off - the best koa out there only costs 500, and the guitar doesnt get built any different than the EIrw ones. |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:34 am ] |
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Before I built my first, I had owned more than my fair share of Taylor guitars, including an 8-series. Up to that point, I would have said a Taylor guitar was as good, if not better, than 98% of the guitars I had ever owned...which is well into the tens. And I would have been correct. Because of a rough period in my life, I commissioned a guitar, my first custom, from Don Williams, on a whim. I can say with total confidence, and honesty, that there is NO comparison between a finely crafted, hand made guitar and a factory guitar...ANY factory guitar, with any label. To compare my Williams guitar - from any perspective - to a factor made guitar is just silly. People who don't even play guitars pick up my Willaims and say, "Oh...this is something here." And I NEVER get tired of that reaction. If I had that kind of money, and because of this dang addiction I do not, I'd order a custom built guitar. |
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| Author: | BlueSpirit [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:16 pm ] |
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I have to agree with Paul. Have the guitar made by a Luthier in this forum Look at thier guitars and pick one. You will get exactly what you want and be able to watch the whole thing. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:36 pm ] |
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I think we are all biased and a little snobby (... I mean this in the nicest way...   ) I see nothing wrong with a production guitar. I owned a Taylor 914ce and it was a cannon. I eventually sold it when I felt that I could make a better one, but I would never say it was not a fantastic guitar.
There are pros and cons of factory and luthier guitars. (like the long wait, resale value, etc.) Different strokes for different folks. One thing you should think about when buying instruments. You can find deals all day long at 70% of retail list, and occassionaly you can find them at 60% of retail list. If you need the name of someone in the 60% bracket PM me. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:48 pm ] |
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Well ain't this a fun thread????!!!! It's true, the options are numerous. A Taylor will hold it's value to some degree compared to a no-name builder's instrument like what Bill Greens mentioned. It doesn't mean it's better than the no-name guitar, but the market perception of a quality Brand vs an unknown brand is part of what drives the value. Hey...maybe Bill will sell you his "Willaims"... 
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