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Bocote
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Author:  Brian Hawkins [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:36 am ]
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OK, this is going to be somewhat of a therapy session for me . I got some bocote a while back (Q/S, enough for about 2 sets), cut it, stickered it and gave it plenty of time to adjust to the enviornment here. Both sets were sold to previous customers and both had the same problem. The wood curled up like a pringle, I refunded for one set because it stressed so bad that it cracked but the other one has adjusted as far as I know. It was kiln dried wood and I am sure that that was a contributing factor but even so, the reaction was alarming. My thinking is that if this is how this wood is then is it to be considered a poor wood to build with? Has anyone worked with Bocote before?
Author:  Dickey [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:47 am ]
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Brian, Bocote is the same genus of Ziricote, Cordia. Paxton's comments: Hard, heavy and strong. Not difficult to work, highly durable, medium texture. Says also that the trees are small, lumber averages 4" wide and five feet long. Carves well, suitable for turnery, fine furniture and inlay work. Got a picture?
Author:  Brian Hawkins [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:01 am ]
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Thanks BD, I was aware that it is in the same family as Ziricote, Less brittle though. Seemed very dry and more pores. Here's a pic
Author:  Colin S [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:11 am ]
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Brian

I've just had a word with my tonewood guy, he keeps Bocote, but he hasn't had many people build with it yet (just him!). But the furniture guys like it. He has had no trouble with it warping overly. SG of 0.95 and as Bruce says the same genus as Ziricote. He suggests that as a fairly oily wood it may not like the kiln drying? He's sending me a set anyway.

That's the problem with a small sample, scientifically we would say that a sample of two, although 100% in your case, is statistically insignificant. Re-saw another 500 sets and see if the same happens!

Colin

Author:  Brian Hawkins [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:30 am ]
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Colin,
Thanks, that helps alot, and let me know how yours reacts. It is a very cool looking wood (pics don't really do it justice) and before I go this route again I want to know just how problimatic it is going to be.....I bought it locally and it sat for several months (there and also here) and when I cut it, it didn't do anything too wierd at all. I really liked it before I shipped it out. Maybe I should have cut it and stickered it for a couple of years.....or better yet bought something else !
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:50 am ]
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I slice it up regularly for binding strips. Of course, the resultant strips are quite small, but they have remained stable. And the grain orientation hasn't seemed to matter at all. It is such a striking wood! Hurry up and finish those Bocote guitars guys, and post your pix.
Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:24 am ]
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How long was it stickered for after you resawed? Sounds to me like it wasn't stable yet nor dry inside...case hardened, if you know how that applies to wood.
Author:  Brian Hawkins [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:21 pm ]
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It sat for several months here both before I cut it and for several months after. I am aware of what case hardening is and I am fairly confident that that is what the bottom line is here. I am thinking that this is a wood that needs years to air dry and doesn't fair well in this application when kiln dried. I just can't really figure out why it remained flat even after I pulled the sticks [:?:] I think Colins' tonewood guy may have hit the mark.....maybe it doesn't like kiln drying?
Author:  Brian Hawkins [ Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:31 pm ]
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I have recently learned to go to this site for answers to questions like these
bocote
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:59 am ]
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I Once made a neck out of Bocote with a Bocote fretboard as well. It was Beautiful and as easy or easier to work with than Maple ( for sure) I like it and would use it again anytime.
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:25 am ]
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Dave, that's excellent news. I've always liked the idea of using a matching neck wood to the body/side. I've been discussing cherry neck on cherry body with Tim. I've got a Bocote set coming so I guess I'd better get back on the phone for some neck wood. Bocote neck on Bocote body appeals.

ColinColin S38386.5181018518
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:33 am ]
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Dave (& Colin for that matter)--How thin did you work the neck? It seems like a regular-sized neck of Bocote would be excessively heavy. Pretty, but heavy. You'd have sustain out the wazoo, and probably a killer sound, but it might be hard to have strapped around your shoulder for an appreciable amount of time?
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:30 am ]
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My 14 fret necks run 18mm at first fret to 22mm at 10th fret, including fretboard, 12 fret 18mm at first to 20mm at 8th. I always use rosewood fingerboards. A Bocote neck (with sycamore laminate to match the binding) should run no heavier than the Cuban necks I commonly use, and certainly no heavier than a Honduran classical width neck. With my preferred slot head reducing end weight, I don't see it as a major problem compared to the increased tonal quality that might be obtainable. The sound is everything.

ColinColin S38386.6537152778
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:01 am ]
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It has been awhile so I can't remember specifics but I don't remember thinking "wow this is heavy". I just remember that it was a realy beautiful neck. The customer LOVED it.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:34 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] The customer LOVED it.[/QUOTE]

I bet he did. Thanks, guys.

Steve
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:46 pm ]
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Brian that set will make a beautiful guitar.
I've been thinking that to help customers feel more comfortable buying these great alternate tonewoods we should rename them. Pick a third world country and add "rosewood" to the end and there you have it. I mean Bubinga is sometimes called Africa rosewood so we could call bocote something like Slobovian rosewood and offer it at a substantial upgrade and folks will feel like they are really getting something special. Which they will be but with a name like bocote they didn't know it. Its all about customer service.
Author:  Brian Hawkins [ Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:21 pm ]
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John,
Funny but true! When you listen to the tap tone of "Bloodwood" you find that it taps like a true hard rosewood......I wonder if it had a name like Venezuelan Rosewood, if it might sell for $125 a set and people would cherish it like a gem! I did talk to my friend Steve (Colonial Tonewoods) and he felt like the curl that occured in that set,especially since it occured after it left here, had more to do with regional climate changes than anything else and as Bruce suggested, it is in the same family as Ziricote. It was not a case hardening issue but a climate changing issue. I did refund the guy his money and let him keep the set (he has been a very good previous customer) and I do hope that he is able to build with it.....one of those lesson learned deals I guess.
Author:  Brian Hawkins [ Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:27 pm ]
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Steve,
I hope I got that right...if not please feel free to correct me, OK.
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:55 pm ]
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Brian
   You be a good man. Refunding cracks that occur after a sale is hard to justify given that variations of temp and humidity that you have no control over and the treatment of that set after it leaves you, also out of your control. I guess it all really is about customer service.
    I am repairing a small separation in the top seam that occured to one of my guitars that has been stored at Very Low Humidity without case. (the customer was honest about that) I'm doing the work gratis. Must keep the mark untarnished.
Author:  Brian Hawkins [ Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:24 am ]
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John,
I think it is a good thing of you to fix that seperation. You hit the mark when you said it's all about customer service. In the long run it always pays off to do the right thing.
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