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Author:  Serge Poirier [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:17 pm ]
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Hi folks, thought i'd post some more progress pics, i've been carving/shaving all the braces of the top and back today and all that's left is the sanding of the braces of the back and a bit of cleaning up, i've decided to go for the parabolas since i've heard a lot of good things about them. Both the top and back sound loud to the tappingbut a bit bassy especially on the red cedar top, i tried to make the braces very tall and thin, all critique is welcome, TIA

here it is:

The top braces





Glueing of the back center seam, i decided to go with an poff cut from the red cedar top, i kind of like the contrast. I also glued an EIR piece on the star brace



Back braces rough shaped, all i have to do on them is the final sanding but that will wait for tomorrow night along with the glueing of the side reinforcement strips



My definition of happiness! Thinnking of it, i just missed an opportunity to take a pic in it and calling it the Crazy "RITS"!!!!







Et voila!

Thanks for watching!

Serge
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:32 pm ]
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Serge, If I remember right, you thinned that top down to about 0.115+/- right. Which is thinner than most go with a cedar top, but that doesn't mean it's not stiff, it very well could be.

thinking about that and the fact that cedar is not as stiff as spruce, I would still say that the top braces look a little on the heavy side.

What are you base dimensions prior to shaping? This will help somewhat but of course it's hard to say what this will sound like without hearing the top.

I certainly don't have very much experience other than what I've seen posted by other more experienced builders here at the OLF and on other web sites and my own guitars (4 hardly counts for much experience indeed), so please take what I say with a grain of salt (or cyann pepper if you like it spicy )Rod True39043.9818518519
Author:  James Orr [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:39 pm ]
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Hey Bud

Thanks for showing us the pics! I'm certainly far from experienced as
well, but my first thought was what Rod wrote. I don't know about the
back, but the top looks heavily braced, especially in the fingers. If I
remember the pic Scott posted of his parabolically braced OM, the fingers
and tone bars were about half as tall as the X.
Author:  old man [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:39 pm ]
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Looking really good, Serge, my fine Canadian friend. Is that bridge plate EIR? X-bracing on the back. Parabolics. You've gone quite contemporary.

Anxious to hear how this one sounds.

Ron
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:11 pm ]
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[quote=The Heshter]wood can always be removed but not replaced..... [/quote]

Well said Hesh
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:54 pm ]
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Thanks for the great response my brothers!

The finger braces really are tall but the pic doesn't show well how thin they are, i'd say close to ~ 1/16" thin at their peak, would you still advise to reduce their height considering how thin they are at their tips????

Thanks Rod, wrong numbers i had posted back then, don't know why the top was 0.130" thick at the edges and a bit more at the center last i remeasured, it does sound loud as it is but having no experience with it, i just rely on feel, perhaps Colin would chime in for his Bear?

Thanks James, took good notice of that friend!

Ron, yes, EIR bridge plate, thanks my friend!

Thanks brother Hesh, you were one of my influences on this, do you think that if i reduce the finger braces, the sound will be more balanced?

Serge Poirier39044.0392592593
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:12 pm ]
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if you're at 0.130" thick I would bring the braces down quite a bit especially the lower two tone bars and the finger braces. How high are they know?

This is the bracing on my last guitar. The top is 0.127+/- thick.

I shaved the lower tone bars after this picture was taken as per the red line. The x-braces are 5/16" wide by 5/8" at the highest point (the crossing of the x brace. The tone bars are 1/4" wide by 1/2" at the peak.

I think that I could have gone lower on the x-braces after it was all finished up, but I'm always worried about taking too much off. The owner is still blownaway with the sound (I'm blown away that it's still together , just kidding)

Author:  Alain Desforges [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:40 pm ]
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Right on Serge! That looks great my friend...   Really cool back bracing. I'm really looking forward to playing this geetar... So, string her up already!
Author:  Billy T [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:57 pm ]
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Serge It's great learning with ya! The braces look heavy to me but I know less than you do! Cedar has a warmer tone at least as I understand it, so maybe lighter is better, but your right there and can see better the proportions than ourselves.

    Again, I'm liking the looks of this one a lot!
Author:  Colin S [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:36 pm ]
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Serge the braces do look a bit on the large side to me as well, but better that than too small as has been said you can always trim them.

This is the bracing for my current OM, this is about my usual style, and size. All of these are 6mm thick, On this one the the X is 15mm at its highest and the maximum height of the highest tone bar finished up at 10mm and the highest finger is 7mm. This is an Italian spruce top. This one taps very clear right along all of the braces with no dead spots. I have great hope for it.



Don't forget though Serge, that all pieces of wood should be treated as individual so final heights etc will vary as you voice the top.

Colin

Serge PM me if you want more details of measurements profiles or anything else etc.Colin S39044.2541666667
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:38 pm ]
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WOW, thanks a lot guys!

Hesh, Rod and Colin , you all have convinced me to bring them braces down a bit, so tonight will be back to the chisel and plane and sandpaper for me so extended fun it will be for that Bear in the shavings! , i'll post my braces height and thicknesses sometime before 10h00am. Thanks for your great advice and input guys, Colin, i'll send you a PM my brother!

Thanks Alain and Billy!

Alain, i'm breathing down ya neck dude, will string her up this afternoon! Thanks pal!

Thanks Billy, glad you like it, i love the SJ shape better than the dread already, it has a warm feeling out of them curves!

Thanks all!
Author:  burbank [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:13 am ]
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Lookin' good there, Serge! I think you're getting good advice on the braces. It's gonna sound great!
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Pat!

Ok guys, i measured the braces of the top and here it goes on average heights:

TOP
finger braces: 5/8"      17 mm
Tone bars:     5/8"   &nb sp;  17 mm
X brace :      5/8"   & nbsp;  17 mm

What do you guys think?

Author:  Rod True [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Ok,

So the tone bars I think you can bring down to about 7/16"
The finger braces could go down to 3/8"
and the x brace, well that's how tall I have mine at the tallest point, but you may be able to start your downward taper closer to the bridge plate and arc it down to the ends. Or you could be fine with what you have.

Of course as Colin pointed out already, no two pieces of wood are the same and it's all based on the top and ring of the top. That only comes with more experience.

With each successive guitar you build (and me too) you will get to know which brace to shave and which to leave. After about what 20-30 they will all start to sound better, so all we can really do is keep building and learning. Oh darn

I think this is going to be a good one bud.
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:36 am ]
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Lots of good advice here Serge.Keep on it and it Will be great I'm sure.Having fun carving them braces? Yeah,Its one of my favorite things too. Lookin' Good my friend    
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:49 am ]
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Thanks Rod, Hesh and Dave [:D] , i PMed Colin asking for his wisdom and he offered me great input that i printed out and that i will bring to the shop, he also said that he'll also send more pics to me to help visually.

Thanks Colin i do appreciate that my friend1

With all your help, i'm definitely more confident that i will get a very nice sounding guitar!

QUOTE Hesh: With this said I always shoot for a fantastic guitar with every one I attempt. Do I get there, no......, but I try.....

Oh Man, if you had my ears, you would not even let that thought approach you bro! [:)]

Will do the final carving and shaving and will report to my coaches here! thanks for such support, i love you folks!

Regards

Serge
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:29 am ]
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Hey bud, here's a look at the bracing in no.3, which was pretty much the same as in no.2. At least you had a chance to play no.2 and you have an idea of how it sounded...



Not shown in the picture is that the braces are very thin...
Author:  charliewood [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:31 am ]
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Looking Gooooood, Im loving the look of this one bud!
Keep up the good work
Cheers
Charliewod
Author:  MSpencer [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Looking good Serge!

I have braced to heavy in the past and the change to a lighter bracing approach was strange for me. I visited with some folks here on the OLF and have made the change. Colin sent me his size information and that was very helpful. I also moved more towards parabolic shaping. I took alot of meat off compared to past bracing and could tell a great improvement in tap sound.

I also tried a few other new things after some discussions here on the bracing

I tucked everthing above the soundhole and did not below on one, just butted to the Kerf at the same angle at contact, tucked just the bottom X on another, and tucked all the way around on the final (which is what I have done in the past).

Good luck my friend

Mike
Author:  Billy T [ Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote=Serge]Thanks Billy, glad you like it, i love the SJ shape better than the dread already, it has a warm feeling out of them curves! [/quote]

   I think the waist is a little back and more pronounced giving a more stable feeling.

    An added plus, when playing the jumbo, you can sit back, close your eyes, and imagine your Gene Autry...

Well I'm back in the saddle again...
Back where a friend is a friend!   

Sometimes... I'm Roy Rogers... but mostly Gene!

    Have a good time on your braces!   
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Al, Charlie, Mike and Billy!

Gotta agree with all who support the idea of a lighter bracing, i'm now a convert! Thanks Colin, the difference in tap tone is HUGE! The info you gave me will remain in the shop forever my friend.

Here are a few more pics so you can compare with the first pics of this thread...







The tap tone went from loud to clear dramatically as i fine tuned each one individually, i think this kind of bracing is revolutionnary! Not sure that i will ever scallop braces again!

Best regards

Serge

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