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Any of you have any experience with this machine. Since I can't afford Lance's Tormek system I was looking at this for a possible alternative. TIA, John How
Grizzly grinder

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Looks like it would/could do a fine job. I have always had trouble trying to use these machines. I had a Woodtech and didn't like it. But it spun the stone level. That's why I was asking Lance for his feedback on the Tormek. I need something that's quick. I suppose once you get the hang of it they all work pretty well.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Yeah, I've used those flat ones and did'nt like it either and I too want something to put a quick and good edge on. Maybe I'll give it a try since I couldn't get Lance to accept my offer to send him my chisels. John How38389.5523958333

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Hello Friends,
I have never offered advice concerning luthier skills since I'm learning and have a lot to learn.
Now when it comes to sharpening certain tools, perhaps I can help.
Many...many years ago I fell in love with leathercraft.
Keeping an edge on certain stainless steel tools was a constant battle.
Now, if you guys are talking about keeping an edge on chisels for shaping bracewood, here's a good method.
First of all, you can destroy your fine chisels using a motorized stone grinder...that's a NO-NO!!
You can never find a stone smooth enough to get the best edge...really! If your chisels are in really rough shape, gently use an Arkansas smooth stone with a little water or oil to get the edge fairly smooth and level. Then advance to this other method for the finishing touches.
Here's how: You need to locate a leather dealer in your area or contact a Co. called "The Leather Factory".
You can also find "Tandy Leather Co". Tandy closed all their retail stores Nationwide and sell only by catalog or internet.
What you need: Buy a small piece of 11-13oz. Natural Oak leather...untreated and not oiled. Generally this weight is used for saddle skirts. What you want to buy is about a 2square ft. piece. Not exactly a big sale for these suppliers. If you call and ask nicely they will sell this small amount. Usually they want to sell an entire side of leather. Half a steer side.
Next, locate from your hardware store, a brick of Buffing compound. It's available in brick form. You want one brick of jewelers red rouge polishing compound.
If your tools are in really bad shape, buy another brick of a coarser buffing comp. Usually it is brownish red in color. Now...the back side of the leather is sueded. The front side is smooth. You don't need to use the smooth side. Rub a generous amount of Jeweler's red rouge on the sueded side. Be generous when rubbing it into the leather. On another piece of leather, rub the coarser rubbing compound in the same manner.
Basically you now have two cutting grits on leather.
Take your chisel and in a one way pulling stroke towards you run the chisel several times on the coarse grit and then switch to the red rouge. Not sharp enough? Repeat again until you have the degree of sharpness desired.
This is the best method for sharpening quality edged tools. "Believe It or Not"
WalterkWalterK38389.6183564815

Walter, though I agree that many motorized methods can roach a tool very quickly, I use a Tormek and find it give a better edge than I've ever gotten via any other methods. One thing that I use more than any is the leather stropping wheel. Spinning at about 60 rpm and loaded with compound, it makes the edge a mirror (literally) and will cut like a hot knife through butter.
Now back to John's question. I'm not sure that this will be the ideal tool for you simply because it doesn't have the strop. That's really where you get the fine cutting edge. Now if you want to combine it with a leather strop that Walter talks about, I think it might be a good machine. Not too sure about the courseness of the stone however.

Thanks Walter. I think I'll give the leather a try as I am almost completely out of space to store another piece of equipment. On the scale and speed I build, between "scary sharp" and the leather I should get by just fine.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

I watched the videos on the system...very impressive. The speed and convenience factors are tempting. A few questions occurred to me:
1) What effect does hollow grinding from a wheel have compared to a perfectly straight bevel produced using stones or the glass plate method?
2) How does the sharpness from the Tormek compare to that produced by a 1/4" glass plate and sandpaper from 320 grit through 2000 grit?

I use the glass plate method and also get the surface to a mirror finish...and sharper than I ever believed possible. I'm sure it takes longer than using the Tormek from scratch, but I only ever seem to need periodic touch ups on 600-2000...<5 minutes.

That leather stropping wheel looks cool by itself...I can see where it would encourage you to touch up more frequently.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

JJ, you pose some good questions. I think the hollow grind might be a factor. I don't worry about it much but someone REALLY experienced with a chisel might not like it.
I had a contest with another builder a couple of weeks ago. We both started at the same time. And finished in about the same time (he's really good with a chisel) and we concluded that mine was actually sharper. Tested on end grain maple.
So for the money, if you already know how to do it by hand well, it might not be worth it. For me, I sucked at doing them by hand and pretty much ruined every edge I touched so it made sense for me. Kind of cop out I realize but it makes me work better and safer so what can I say?

JJ...

I can't sharpen my wit much less a chisel or handplane and need all the help I can get, I've had my tormek for 3 years now. Simply put I can't live without it, with a little practice you can put an edge on a tool in no time, about 3-4 minutes for me on average.

It allows me to be precise with my Lie-Nelson planes and precision counts with those...

I've never had any problems with the hollow grind, and I don't use Japanese chisels because your not supposed to hollow grind them

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Hello Walter,
Your method is the very best, machinery for sharpening no good ,when you have the finest edge you can get by the stone and leather method the final thing to do is to blow sharply along the edge from the thin side, I worked for a while with an old master cabinet maker and his method was stone, leather, a quick pass over the hard skin on his hand and then blowing ,you could cut wet newspaper into thin strips with his edges
Roger

Walter,
This is a real stupid question but why don't you use the smooth side? I assume it's because you can't get the rouge to penetrate?

p.s. Do you have the Tel# or web address where you buy your leather? THANKS!Dave-SKG38390.4341319444

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Hi Dave,
Yes that's correct. The sueded side will retain the buffing rouge. It's so soft that it will not hurt any tool.
This old method used to sharpen fuine leather tools made of high grade stainless steel. You could shave with them.
I don't work with leather anymore. My hands are full of arthritis now. I really miss learther crafts. I still have a couple of antique reproduction old west holsters in the "Buffalo Bill Historical Museum in Cody, WY. I made them look like they were 150 yrs old. A special method I developed to make leather appear older and well used.
Thanks for asking Brother!
WalterK

As another old leathercrafter, I can attest to the method walter is talking about. I have pieces of leather with rouge on them spread all over my shop. Some by themselves and some glued to a piece of wood for a more rigid strop.

Hey Walter,
Thanks for the advice... it is much appreciated. Also, about that antique leather process. Can you explain a little more. I would love to know how you make leather look aged ( if you don't mind sharing a secret with me). I assume there's more to it besides beating the day lights out of it! THANKS WALTER!

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Jimmie and Walter, now just so I'm understanding you right, you put the rouge on the rough side of the leather? Not the smooth side?

Bruce, either one will work. The rough side will hold the rouge a little better but I have not had any problems with the smooth side. I like to use the smooth side because it's ,well, smoother. It makes a great strop either way.

Hi Bruce,
Generally with heavier vegetable tanned saddle leather there is a smooth side and a rougher side on the back. Sometimes the back is fairly smooth as well. To make it sueded just take some 80 0r 60 grit sand paper and rough it up by hand. When you have developed a nice sueded side bang it on the side of a table and get any sand particles which may have lodged into the leather. Now...take the rouge brick( the size of a package of butts) and rub generously until you have the leather very red, about 2" wide and about 6" long. Also use a coarser grit buffing compound that is used for cutting. It's redish-brown. I forgot the name of it. Do the same on another piece of leather.
Start stropping from the top of leather towards you. One way action.
Start with the rougher compound and then finish with the Jewelers red rouge.
It's a safe way to get a great edge. Repeat the process if the chisel starts getting a little dull.
Then go back and continue to trim your braces.
It never fails.
WalterK

Hi Jimmie,
You're right...you can put the Jewelers rouge on the smooth side and strop it as a final finish.
Right on.
Thanks Jimmie.
WalterK

Walter How about the green rouge that Japan woodworker and LeeVeritas both sell? Is that any good?

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Hi Dave,
You know I'm not familiar with those companies?
Generally any good hardware store should carry buffing compound. You want the type that is in a cake or solid form. The Jewelere's rouge being the final or last one you would use.(Finest grit). The red/brown was the coarsest.
All you need is these two. Note: You should always start with a wet stone first to get all the burs off first. Then go to the leather and using the buffing compounds.
There's nothing to it. Let me know how you come out on this.
Thanks,
Walter

Thank You Walter! I guess I do owe you a commission...Hey, how much will cost to pry that leather aging secret from you?

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

It's amazing, how many different and varied ways that people do things. I for one have a traditional sharpening stone set up which afterwards I used a leather strop without any compound. Then I saw Lee Valley had this micro-abrasive paper for sharpening. So I thought I would try it. I have decided to use it continuously since purchasing. One paper cuts rough, the next puts an edge and the last polishes to a chrome like finish. The chisel or iron sharpened this way will shave the hair off my arm or cut end grain on maple. I also use a chisel,iron holder for the right angle. The material is cheap and works well. Here is a link for anybody that wants to check it out.Lee Valley
So if anyone wants to try this it is quite an inexpensive way to go. Happy sharpening however you do it.

Ron,
Thanks...I went to Veritas...bought a whole bunch of stuff like always...including the sharpening paper. I am going to try the paper then the Leather. I think that's going to work great! Thanks again guys!

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"