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Guitar kit finish w/ Waterlox http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=974	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Jeff Doty [ Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:31 am ]
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Hello Everyone, Thought I would post some pictures of my guitar kit in progress. 1st off, I finished both guitar and neck with waterborne lacquer.......and it was a disaster! Of course, I had to brush it on, and that was probably the kiss of death. So after much thought, I sanded it all off, back to bare wood, and decided to try Waterlox tung oil based finish. So far, I have put down 5 coats of sealer, and I am on coat 3 of the gloss finish. I am pretty impressed so far. It is easy, just wipe it on, and is pretty self leveling. A few more coats and I will let it dry for a couple weeks and then try to polish it out. Anyone else use this? Jeff

Author:	Dickey [ Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:48 am ]
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Jeff, I don't know anything about waterlox finish, but wanted to applaud your fine looking guitar. The maple really flames on those bindings against the rosewood. What kind of wood is the neck? Slotted no less, wow! Nice looking top, Sitka? Great job.

Author:	Dave-SKG [ Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:57 am ]
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The finish is looking good. I am trying a some new stuff called Hard Shellac...so far so good...I like the way the Waterlox looks. Please keep us posted. There are many of us here looking for something new. You may be onto something! p.s. so is your guitar...but you knew that already! Is that some of BobC's super curly maple binding?Dave-SKG38389.6670601852

Author:	Don A [ Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:49 am ]
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Looking good there Jeff Keep us posted on how the Waterlox turns out. Any problems with smell, asking as I've got a basement shop with no to poor ventelation? Dave, if you run across anymore of the Hard Lacquer....grab me a bottle

Author:	LanceK [ Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:05 am ]
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Jeff! looking REAL good! make sure its dead level before you do your final buffing, no matter how you apply your lacqure, if its level, its gonna look better when buffed. Good work!

Author:	WalterK [ Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:11 am ]
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Jeff, What a beautiful guitar!!!! Simply BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let us see the final product, won't you?? Stay on it. Thanks. WalterK

Author:	Skip Beach [ Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:02 pm ]
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Wow Jeff, That maple binding really snaps nicely! Very, very pretty wood combination overall. And that Waterlox varnish really looks good! You may remember, I recently finished my 1st guitar using wiped on Tru-oil varnish. From what I understand, the two varnishes are functionally similar, although the Waterlox uses tung oil as a base & Tru-oil uses linseed oil as it's base. Are you following a particular application routine ... like level sanding every 3rd coat, or mildly leveling & scuffing between each coat, etc.? It looks so nice & smooth & glossy in the pictures, whatever you're doing certainly seems correct. Please post in detail how you're doing this. In my very limited, 1st time experience with varnishing an instrument, I couldn't get a perfectly level & consistently glossy final coat on my guitar. If you ultimately find yourself in a similar circumstance, here's a suggestion. I've posted this before in another thread but here it is again in case you feel the need to try it. I decided to stop obsessing about uncovering witness lines and thoroughly leveled the finish by wet sanding from 400 grit up through 1500 or 2000 grit. Then lightly wiped on two final coats of varnish that were very thin ... thinned 50/50 with mineral spirits (not Naptha - it dries too fast). By not sanding after these last two THIN coats, I didn't have to worry about witness lines. Except for the odd dust nib, this approach turned out very well. A month later I lightly polished with the Novus #3, #2, #1 system & man it glossed up better than I had ever hoped. I'm planning to use Waterlox glossy or Behlens Rock Hard varnish for the back & sides of my next luthiery effort. As you continue your finish schedule, I'll be hoping to hear more about your experience and see more pictures of your beautiful guitar. Skip BeachSkip Beach38389.838287037

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:35 am ]
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Very nice Jeff!! Just incase there are any newbie’s to lacquer finishing, or those that may think that brushing on will be cheaper than a basic spray set up. Here are a few things to consider. 1. You must use the best quality china bristle brush you can get. A poly or foam brush will not get the job done. And you need to have several so that you have a clean and dry one to start each session. A high quality China bristle brush will cost around $25.00 and need replacing often to avoid shedding in to your film. I used 3 per guitar. That is $75 per guitar 2. You need to practice to get the hang of letting the media flow off the brush. The brush should just barley touch the surface. This allows the lacquer to flow smoothly on instead of being painted on and leaving channels from the bristles. Always flow in one direction only. Beginning and ending a pass requires a practiced stroke to avoid buildup, pull-off and over drip of lacquer. 3. Never ever back brush or overlap by more than just a vary small amount. Never try to touch up an area till the film has set up for at least 4 hours. You will just make a mess of the film. 4. In my experience leveling is twice as intensive as that required if the lacquer is carefully sprayed. When I set up my first basic spray system, I paid $150 for my compressor, hose, spray gun, exhaust fan (for the spray both or room) and a zipped Mylar door (for my spray room). All of which is still in use. I have upgraded my compressor to service more than the spray booth. Compared to brushing on it is much cheaper to set up a basic spray system. That is of course you plan to build more that one guitar. If you only plan to build one then I would recommend French polish or a wiped or padded varnish finish. I feel for a newbie, brushing lacquer is quick path to frustration. Just My opinion

Author:	Jeff Doty [ Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:53 am ]
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Thanks Everyone! I appreciate the feedback. Don, The smell is fairly mild, as compared to nitro for instance. I think it would be fine with minimal ventilation, as long as there was air movement in the room, and preferably a small exhaust fan. I am in my unfinished garage, so it has very little odor. Skip, My routine started with 1 coat sealer, then sand back with 600 wet. This was too much sanding, I went through the layer pretty quick even with the 600. So, I put on 2 coats and then sanded, and it was better. At coat 4 I sanded back to level, and then added coat 5 of the sealer. I went straight to the gloss coat after that, and sanded after the 1st one, and now every other coat. I have a few bad spots where there is a small ridge. I think it is due to my surface prep before application of the varnish, and my inexperience using it. The surface is not as flat as it looks in the pictures, but I think I could do better with experience. I am going to use your idea of thinning the last couple coats. It makes sense to me. Michael, You are right about the brushing vs spraying. I have never sprayed before, but I do have a compressor and gun. I tried to spray the water borne lacquer at 1st, but I just could not get the right settings to make it flow out without running, so I gave up in frustration and tried brushing. It did not work! I have wiped the varnish on with lint free paper towels from the auto paint store, and it seems to work pretty good. But I have experienced some of the problems you mentioned. So, I will be practicing my spraying technique, as that is what I know will work better than brushing. I think I will try spraying this varnish too. If anyone is interested in trying it, I got mine at Woodcraft. But many hardware stores also carry it. Here is the Waterlox website. Jeff

Author:	jfrench [ Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:34 am ]
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Jeff, Great job! I hadn't heard of the waterlox varnish before, but it looks darn good. Oils do a great job in bringing out the flame maple. Where'd you get the kit from? Best wishes, Joshua French

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:43 am ]
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Don't you just love the way that that dull chocolate brown raw IRW is totally transformed under finish to shimmering reddish green brown. After all this time it still amazes me the change that happens when you start polishing a newly finished guitar. Maybe my favorite time next to finishing the set-up.

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