Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi all

Does anyone else have a problem with taping bindings and wicking them with CA?

The glue tends to wick out under the tape and causes an awful mess.

Now this is fine with a natural wood finish. A pain to clean up but easy enough.

The Bearclaw dread we're building at present has African Mahogany backs and sides so we decided to stain it before the bindings and purflings went on.

The CA wicked under the tape on the back and sides and was impossible to get off without going through the stain so I've just spent the last 4 hours sanding it back.

We've decided to mask all of the bindings and add some stain to the Z-poxy and see how we go with that.

The bindings/purflings on this guitar are

Herringbone/Ivoroid/BWB on the top

BWB/Ivoroid/BWB on the back

Does any one have any advice or other methods that they use?

Thanks

Bob

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

I got the same results using the brown tape that SM and LMI sell. I had much better results with plain old strapping tape...the stuff with the string layered in with the glue. CA doesn't seem to react with that glue. It also works better since you can crank it down with more force.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I seal the entire top when I use this method and a good portion of the sides with a wash coat of shellac (and of course the channels). Then I use just a tiny dab of glue while I am tacking things to hold them in place. You really don't need a lot of CA.

With regard to tape. This is what you need:

https://www.hillas.com/Products/3M_Film_Tapes__Most_Popular/ 3M_622_1_2_X_60.asp

CA doesn't stick to it. I use a mix of this and the brown tape from LMI and SM for my bindings. I have got it down to a very minimal mess now.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Put your tape down tightly and remember, a little CA goea a long way. It doesn't take much, take the tape off as soon as the CA sets up.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I bought a cheap ryobi laminate trimmer ($79 at HD) cut up the base and added a spacer to lift it up off the surface. Now I route the bindings down even with the surface of the guitar instead of scraping them. On my little ladder guitars the binding/purfling is about 5/16" wide and took forever to scrape so I made this and can level the binding/Purfling in about 2 minutes. I leave everything adjusted and the tool is dedicated to this single job. I'll try to remember to post a picture tommorrow.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

    I don't like the CA. I have seen the stuff color spruce over time to a nice yellow that sticks out like a sore thumb.
    I use the duco for plastic and tite bond for wood bindings. I use the CA from CTH . What CAs are you guys using? I like the speed that CA can sure just don't want to see that yellowing anymore.
john

John...I use the StewMac stuff. What stuff were you using? Haven't seen yellowing after 2 years.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Yeah, I have been using Starbond like you are John and I have had no problems. But I put at least a couple thin coats of CA in the channels and on the top. It is sealed really well when I do this. After I clean it all up during final sand it looks great. No bleeding.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

My personal view is that CA has no part to play in building musical instruments. Like nitro, it is not allowed near my shop (or my lungs).

I find that HHG is ideally suited to gluing on wooden bindings, it fits well with the process; apply glue, tape down, apply glue, tape down. It's one of those processes where we work our way around in steps so HHG is perfectly suited for it. Also HHG is the only glue I like on my soundbox. Same process for kerfed linings.

Easily reversible and easily repairable. I know I bang on about HHG but it really is the ideal instrument glue which has stood the test of time.

ColinColin S39060.4613194444

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I'm with Colin and Hesh, i used Titebond on no 2 and it was stiff enough and then applied HHG on no 3 and it worked beautifully, you do have to pull really hard in the waist no matter what glue you will use though.

John How, i look forward to see your set up, very interesting way of doing this step!

SergeSerge Poirier39060.4350694444

Good advice from both sides of the CA debate. I like the simplicity CA brings but those are valid counter comments. I won't be able to proceed now until I meditate on this perplexing point. My whole factory has come to a stand still.

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Greg
http://garibaldiinstruments.com/

Be extra carefull with CCA if you are using bloodwood-
recently I tried to fix a loose abalone rosette tile that I noticed during finish prep sanding.I carefully pipetted in a drop of super-thin CCA, thinking I was safe as I had glued the rosette in with epoxy which should have sealed the end grain well. After spraying several sealer coats, I noticed a nasty greenish-yellow smudge near the site of the repair.(I had used alternating bloodwood/maple lines on either side of the pearl). Hoping that it was just a bit of glue that had stayed on the surface, I sanded off the sealer coats and carefully sanded the smudge, using 220 grit. After quite a bit of work it started to disappear, and in the process of feathering out the divot I sanded through the outer purfling lines. I spent days thinking up a way to re-route the rosette in situ, and finally gave up and replaced the top........

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

SAme here.... I keep CA usage to a minimun and in no way I'll use it for bindings...

Good ol' Titebond or LMI white does the trick!

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I am certainly one to acknowledge there is more than one way to approach a problem, but if your claim is that you can't get CA to work without staining then you are not doing it right.

I hate to sound harsh, but this method is great once you work through the kinks.

However, in the end just find a method that works for you and perfect it. Afterall it is just binding.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I used to use the CA method. Until one time I had to route off a top. I was carefully routing out the bindings when BANG about a 9" piece went flying off. As I kept going, this kept happening. Upon inspection, there was no tear out from either the top or the binding, the glue simply failed.
So I've chosen to go the titebond or fishglue route.

I like the CA method. I think it makes is easier to line up the purfling miters and see that everything is perfect before you add the glue. Like Brock, I seal well with shellac first and try to use as little glue as possible. If your binding ledge cuts into tke kerfed lining, you must be very careful or you can end up with a mess inside the guitar when the CA seeps in.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Thanks for the replies everyone.

After a bit of thought about this I actually do like the simplicity of CA but take on board the concerns about the longevity issue.

If I was doing the bindings and purflings all from wood I may do it differently but this was a case of herringbone and ivoroid and not messing up the stain that I'd already applied to the back and sides.

In hindsight it may have been better to use one of the thicker CA's and run the glue in first.

Great idea with the mini-trimmer John. That's already been put on the to do list.

Cheers

Bob

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia