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Series of vacuum plates
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10106&t=28656		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Series of vacuum plates
The body is constructed from a series of laminated plates. In order to produce controlled chambers and another aesthetic idea (I'll post photos later rather than explain now) I have to accurately control the thickness of the plates prior to gluing......which required these tools.
Author:  Cartierusm [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Very Nice. Do you make them yourself? If so on what machine?

I also use aluminum vacuum plates. I make mine on my CNC Mill.
Author:  John A [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Works of art !
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Cartierusm wrote:
Very Nice. Do you make them yourself? If so on what machine?

I also use aluminum vacuum plates. I make mine on my CNC Mill.


I have a Haas VF-4 and a Haas TM-3 left over from a business I used to own.

The VF-4 is used for this tooling. The TM-3 is used only fro wood.
Author:  Peter J [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Beautiful tooling work Stuart. As a retired mfg. engineer it rekindles my appreciation for the skill and craftsmanship of many of the tradesmen I used to work with. Very nice !!

It will be great to see the entire project you have in mind and some of the preliminary results. Thanks for sharing.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Peter J wrote:
As a retired mfg. engineer it rekindles my appreciation for the skill and craftsmanship of many of the tradesmen I used to work with. Very nice !!


Thank you, Peter. Coming from one who has likely designed automation equipment and processes your compliment is well appreciated.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Ooh pretty!

I've always really liked the look of the 'big aluminum grid' type fixtures, though I very rarely use any of that design anymore. Makes me yearn for the day when I can design/build some new fixtures again (maybe when this control retrofit is over...)
Author:  cyborgcnc [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Those are some great fixtures....your machine does a very fine job at cutting these out...I wish i had access to a mill that can cut aluminum as well as wood...

I have always admired Olson guitars, and the work he has been doing with his Fadal to create fixtures and such....

Not sure if you have been at his site, but look here:

http://www.olsonguitars.com/shop_fadal.html

He is an inspiration...on the way one can combine great craftsmanship and artistry, with the power of a CNC machine and computer design....
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
cyborgcnc wrote:
I wish i had access to a mill that can cut aluminum as well as wood...


Funny thing. I had four cnc mills...all big Haas machines like Olson's Fadal.

To cut metal you need coolant. To use coolant you need shrouds around the machine. The coolant has a water soluable oil in it which coats the shroud. When you cut wood in the machine after cutting metal it's like you tarred and feathered the inside of it. It's almost impossible to use one machine for both wood and metal. Although one machine will cut both you'd spend hours cleaning it properly.

I kept one of the mills for metal, sold the other three, and ended up having to buy another one soley for wood....I'm all set up now. :)

I'd get along with Olson...we both clearly love tooling :)
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Zlurgh wrote:
When you cut wood in the machine after cutting metal it's like you tarred and feathered the inside of it. It's almost impossible to use one machine for both wood and metal. Although one machine will cut both you'd spend hours cleaning it properly.


Where are the fifty nodding emoticons? I'm told the inside of the Fadal is painted white...

I use MQL (mist). It's not nearly as bad as if I were running flood, but I have to be picky about my toolpathing strategies to avoid wadding cutters.
Author:  Sheldon Dingwall [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Zlurgh wrote:
cyborgcnc wrote:
I'd get along with Olson...we both clearly love tooling :)


That's beautifully clear in your work.
Author:  Sheldon Dingwall [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Bob Garrish wrote:
I use MQL (mist). It's not nearly as bad as if I were running flood, but I have to be picky about my toolpathing strategies to avoid wadding cutters.


How do you deal with the cloud of mist? I tried it a few times in an open shop environment and it fogged the entire shop. I can't imagine what it would be like in an enclosed machine.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Bob Garrish wrote:
Where are the fifty nodding emoticons? I'm told the inside of the Fadal is painted white...I use MQL (mist). It's not nearly as bad as if I were running flood, but I have to be picky about my toolpathing strategies to avoid wadding cutters.


All modern machines are painted inside and all of them peel after a few months. :) ....at least when cutting metal.

I always flood when cutting metal and although I worried about the promixity of the machine and its coolant to the wood in my shop, I've found it quite easy to maintain humidity at 40% in my shop unless the metal machine is running ALL day and the shop is above 80F.

Without going too much into it....there are many things that can be done to avoid misting your coolant in the cutting process. If you think about it when programming you can avoid clouds of coolant mist. The main thing is to use the slowest rpms possible and simply do as much dry machining as possible.

As an example; a 1/2", two flute, carbide cutter at 60 ipm can run as low as 4000 rpm cutting a .2" deep groove into 6061 T651 aluminum. This can only be done when the cnc machine is heavy and RIGID....and the tooling is high quality (meaning....concentric) In this case you can flood it with coolant and it only throw drops around but doesn't cut the coolant into mist. Typically, I use about 5500 rpm in this scenario and I still don't get that much mist into the air.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Sheldon Dingwall wrote:
Bob Garrish wrote:
I use MQL (mist). It's not nearly as bad as if I were running flood, but I have to be picky about my toolpathing strategies to avoid wadding cutters.


How do you deal with the cloud of mist? I tried it a few times in an open shop environment and it fogged the entire shop. I can't imagine what it would be like in an enclosed machine.


It depends on the quality of the misting unit. There are 'fogless' misters (Fogbuster being a prominent one).

The key is that it needs to be spraying out droplets rather than atomizing the coolant. If the coolant is being siphoned, it gets atomized and things get foggy quick. If the coolant is pressurized, then it doesn't tend to atomize and the fog stops. I made a fogless mister with the coolant at much higher pressure than the air and I use very little coolant. If you can see the coolant coming out, it's waaaaay too much. You should have to put something in front of it and watch it get wet.

There's a discussion on CNCZone between some guys who made fogless misters based on the Fogbuster patent.
Author:  Sheldon Dingwall [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Where are you getting your alu plate? I'm assuming it's mic-6 cast.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Local metals place if they have what I want, Thyssen Krupp if they don't.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Series of vacuum plates
Sheldon Dingwall wrote:
Where are you getting your alu plate? I'm assuming it's mic-6 cast.


All mine is left over from another life....but I got it all at Castle Metals and Copper & Brass Sales (Thyssen Krupp). It's all 6061-T651 extruded bar or plate.
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