Official Luthiers Forum!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

soundhole disaster
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10122&t=28375		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  devincox [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  soundhole disaster
I cut my soundhole out lastnight and, despite my best efforts, the hole was not cut on-center with the rosette. What is the best course of action to repair this?

http://www.devincox.com/images/toprose.jpg

Also when the cutter cut through the back there was a bunch of tear out. What is the best method to repair this?
http://www.devincox.com/images/bottomrose.jpg

Thanks,
Devin
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
What did you use, a plumbers hole cutter? That would be the wrong tool for the job. I cut my soundholes with my rosette cutting rig which includes a laminate trimmer, a router base and a homemade jig.

You can re-center the hole to the rosette by sanding material off one side. I would do that with a drum sander mounted on a drill press, or a spindle sander. Use the largest sanding drum that will fit in the hole.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
Devin-
When cutting for rosette or soundhole, it's important to clamp the top to a backer board-I don't know if you did this.

The 'guide hole' in the backer board is what keeps things centered; the top is too thin and fragile to give very robust support to a guide pin.

It's possible to double the thickness around the soundhole by gluing a 'doubler' to the underside - some builders do this on all their guitars. It's easier to glue the doubler in place before cutting the soundhole, obviously, but it could be done in 'repair mode' if you are careful.

If I were to sand the hole to correct the problem, I'd correct the soundhole shape/position by hand rather than with a powered drum sander. You can use stick-on sandpaper and offcuts of PVC/ABS plumbing pipe to make a sanding tool.

Welcome to the 'real world of woodwork' - we've all done something like this (numerous times) along the way.
;)

John
Author:  the Padma [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
Sand the hole back to center with a drum sander or you could file it back to center it round.

Regarding the tear out.
Sawdust and glue or you might even try the Padma's secret ingredient, is called Bondo.
Then slightly back bevel or round off the sound hole so the bondo don't show.

But Don't tell anybody that I said you could use

Bondo

As it really gets the "purists going"

Of course the "official" way is to tool the tear out area flat,
laminate on new wood and re thickness. Ya right!



blessings
be
duh Padma
Author:  devincox [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
I used this tool to cut it:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=4010&ss=33d7aff4-e879-4b4e-bb3d-20fdad2ac27d

clamped to a backer board on my floor mounted drill press. I used the wrong cutter though. uugh. I ground a cutter for the rossette channel and then didnt switch back to the cutter as shown in the pic/url above. Also, I did not cut the rosette channel and then the soundhole in the same setup. I cut the channel for the rosette and then removed the backer board and top from the press. I should have left it on the board. Lots a learning going on here.
I was hoping for something like sawdust and glue for the tear out, cuz I have lots of sawdust. (c:

ps. do I hurt the "spirit" of the guitar if I always cursing at it? (c:

Thanks to all who replied,
Devin
Author:  LanceK [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
I think what I would do is find a way to center the hole by cutting it over sized. Then come back and install a sound hole binding to reduce the hole back to what you want. It might need to be a fairly large binding, but it should make a mistake look like a design element. [:Y:]
Author:  the Padma [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
devincox wrote:
...
ps. do I hurt the "spirit" of the guitar if I always cursing at it? (c:

Devin



Well Devin,

Some would defiantly say yes.

It may be an inanimate object. However it is an object that is designed and built to be sensitive and responsive to vibrations.

Many luthieres talk to the wood, telling it exactly what they want it to sound like and how to preform.

Sorta reminds me of a carved top me once built. That top was a real expensive tight grain block of lutz that opened up to reveal two pitch pockets, with twisted grain. Any one of them flaws are reasons for rejecting that billet. But for some reason me talked to the wood and carved her anyways. While carving I kept talking to her, telling her how sweet she gonna sound to some jazz picker and how her growl gonna supprise anyone who plays her. I talked to her the whole time I carved and built her box.

Gave her a name too, called her Grace. Couple of days after getting her strung up. Some young jazz picker walked in took one look and laughed his head off as he picked it up and started to play. He was blown away by her voice. Asked me how much. Without saying a word he opened his wallet and handed me the cash.

That top had three strikes against it, yet when I held and tapped that billet I could hear something inside her wanting to sing out....Maybe it was the wood, maybe it was me talking to her, telling her what I wanted her to sound like and maybe it was an anomaly or just the luck of the draw...you decide.

Now if you feel that you have instilled too much cursing in to your build, you may get lucky and oft the thing on to some acid head, hard metal picker. Gee you might even become rich and famous for building grunge metal axes full of piss and vinegar, you know "a whole new sound" kinda thing.

blessings
be
duhPadma
Author:  devincox [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
ha ha. I guess I'll have to relax and leave the cursing for my electric guitar.
Author:  Robert Renick [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
devincox wrote:
ps. do I hurt the "spirit" of the guitar if I always cursing at it? (c:

This guy has some interesting pictures, I won't judge if it hurts or helps, but effect it, if you buy Emoto's work, then yes.
Rob
http://www.hado.net/watercrystals/index.php
Author:  Steve Davis [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
I totally agree with Lance.
If you dont want to sand
fix your top securely to a backboard. be aware that pulling tape off spruce later can pull up splinters
using the hole plug and a compass or a piece of string or whatever
find the new centre and drill carefully for your cutter centre pin into the backboard.
There is no reason you cant lower the tool to the work with one hand on the press, and turn the blade with the other, never turning on the power. its only 2mm of soft spruce.Many light cuts super sharp You will also be able to check alignment before you cut..
then bind the hole and back fill the now invisible tearout

or do something like this!
Attachment:
hugedansoundhole.jpg
Author:  devincox [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
Steve, thats a cool looking soundhole.
I think i'm gonna try and reshape the sound hole by hand. We shall see. (c:


Devin
Author:  devincox [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
used a fine grit sandpaper and spindle on the drill press at 250 rpms and the rosette cleaned up very nicely. finished by hand. The tearout on the back side was mostly on the part that needed to be sanded away and thus was almost completely removed. I will finish it up with some glue and saw dust. I'm back on track and almost ready to glue up my braces.

Thank you,
Devin
Author:  Quine [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
Just learn to hold the guitar at an angle so the hole looks centerred to the audience duh

I would just oversize the hole with sandpaper. Just keep the edge of the hole the same distance from the rosette and it should look ok. It will also remove some of the tear-out area.
Watchout if you use a drill press sander....it will go very fast through thin spruce
Author:  Snaglpuss [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
Can you cut the hole bigger so it centers out?

How bout using a router with a circle template clamped on and a top or bottom bearing bit.

As for the bottom, after you center up the hole, can you cut a circular rabbet from the backside ( again
with an approriate sized circular template) and patch with spruce cutoffs from making the top?
Author:  martinedwards [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
I don't THINK anyone mentioned that when cutting the hole you should go halfway from the front, then flip the top over and cut the rest of the way from the back. no more tear out.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
Works every time, Martin!
Author:  cphanna [ Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: soundhole disaster
I think Lance offered the most practical solution to re-centering and then re-sizing the sound hole. I was going to post it, but he beat me to it. He's a lot more experienced than I am, too, so don't listen to me. Listen to him.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/