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Oil and Wax finish
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Author:  Ti-Roux [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Oil and Wax finish
Hi! I'm finishing a jazz bass; I applied a clear "sesame" color waterstain yesterday, on the swamp ash body. I'm planning to put Tung Oil and Bee's Wax. What's the best way to apply Oil? I mean, how many coats? Some treatment between each coats? How many time between them? A specific treatment before putting wax?

Thanks!
Francis
Author:  SteveCourtright [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
There should be instructions that come with the product, but basically oil finishes (of which there are many variations) you just wipe it on with a soft cloth and wipe off with a clean cloth before it gets thick/sticky. Times vary, but figure about 10-30 minutes depending on temperature, viscosity, humidity, etc. You can get by with a few coats, but the more you add, the deeper the end finish is, which makes for a more deep, shiny look and better protection (which is not much no matter what you do). Oil finishes can take a day (typically) or many days to cure so that you can add another application and some (like raw linseed oil) never fully dry.

I like to rub out oil finishes when making furniture but I don't use the stuff in any form for guitars. Wax goes on the same way. Rub it on with a soft cloth and remove after it dries, but don't wait too long or it is more difficult.
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
I made a test on a scrap piece...
-applied stain, wait 24h
-applied first coat of oil, wipe out the excess 30 m later, wait 24h
-applied second coat, same thing, again 24
-applied #3 and #4 with an interval of few hours

Now I plan to let it cure fews days, at least 2, and then apply the wax.
On the one I bought (Bee's wax), it's written to apply it, wait 5-10 minutes and then polish... Do you think it's the best way? Maybe i'll just wipe out the dried excess, and wait a while, to let it harden, before polishing? By the way, wax can be hand polished?
Author:  SteveCourtright [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
Francis,

Your schedule is probably just fine. If you rub the oil with a fresh cloth and it comes away clean, the oil is probably cured sufficiently for new layers, your wax or whatever.

Bees wax is very soft, in the range of waxes, and usually combined with a harder wax (higher melting point). Still, it is worth a try. The nice thing about wax is that an application of oil will remove the wax and you can have a go with something else if you don't like it. I would just follow the instructions, 5-10 minutes is plenty of time for the wax to harden. The only thing you do with wax related to polishing is just to buff it with a soft cloth. When the shine is lessened in use, you merely reapply the wax and the finish is as good as new.

Good luck
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
Thanks a lot steve! Your help helped me! :D
I finish the test with my scrap wood and really like the look, satin but shiny, exactly what I want. But, I don't think bee's wax will be good for long time, it's soft, like you said, maybe i'll try with some harder wax.

Thanks again!
Author:  avengers63 [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
Be aware that your tung oil probably isn't an oil, but a wiping varnish of some kind. This means that while it will penetrate and seal the wood, it will also build up a protective finish with repeated applications. A true oil (EG: boiled linseed) won't build up any layers at all.

Also, the wax will offer NO protection to the guitar at all. It'll make it shinier when it's buffed, nothing else.

There's nothing wrong with using a wiping varnish then waxing it. I just thought you should be aware.
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
avengers63 wrote:
Be aware that your tung oil probably isn't an oil, but a wiping varnish of some kind. This means that while it will penetrate and seal the wood, it will also build up a protective finish with repeated applications. A true oil (EG: boiled linseed) won't build up any layers at all.

Also, the wax will offer NO protection to the guitar at all. It'll make it shinier when it's buffed, nothing else.

There's nothing wrong with using a wiping varnish then waxing it. I just thought you should be aware.


Thanks! I know it, it is really for the look i'm adding wax. And yes, my tung oil is not "100%" tung oil. It's a mix of oil and wiped varnish. But it makes great. I won't be the harder finish you'll find i'm okay with it. It's a bass for my own so it's okay. If something happen, i'll be the only one to blame.
Author:  avengers63 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
Cool.

As for "not your harder finishes", I have two that were simply polished up to 4000 grit then soaked in teak oil - probably another wiping varnish. Basically no protection for the wood at all, but they look great. So if it's what you're looking for and you don't care about the durability, then it's just perfect.
Author:  turmite [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
avengers63 wrote:
Cool.

As for "not your harder finishes", I have two that were simply polished up to 4000 grit then soaked in teak oil - probably another wiping varnish. Basically no protection for the wood at all, but they look great. So if it's what you're looking for and you don't care about the durability, then it's just perfect.


John I have never heard of teak oil? I do however have 7 pints left in a gallon container of 100% pure tung oil. I did a lot of research before I bought that gallon, but am convinced it is a wonderful wood preservative. The pure tung oil dries very slowly and that is the reason most companies and individuals mix other materials with it. It has many polymers in the oil that will harden over time, but not fast enought for most of us. Something like three months if I remember correctly. Once finished with tung the wood has a very velvety feel to it!

Mike
Author:  avengers63 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil and Wax finish
Teak oil is a varnish of some type that's been thinned down with oil so it can be wiped down. Same thing with Danish Oil, and every pint of Tung Oil you'll find at a home improvement store. I use them when I just want to get the color & figure highlighted and seal the wood off (for the most part) without messing around with poly, lacquer, or shellac.

Yea, true tung oil is a PIA if you ask me. I personally thing it's easier to use a few coats of wiping varnish and get nearly the same results 3 months faster. 3-4 coats wiped on, a light hand sanding with 220, then buff with steel wool and you'll have that silky feel while still getting the texture of the grain. To each their own though. [:Y:] I guess I'm not as patient as you.
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