Official Luthiers Forum!

Just wondered what type of vibrato systems people here were into....

Personally, not a fan of the Floyd Rose types - not enough adjustments, and their locking nuts are a real pain to get right.

Kahler's are well engineered, and adjustable - the stringlock makes more sense to me.

Locking machine heads and a quality vibrato system will work, too.

Opinions? Insights?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

To me Kahler systems are mechanically noisier and contain many friction points at the bridge. Also, leaving the ball end attached leaves room for extra stretching and slack to occur. The lock nuts on Kahler systems, being located behind the actual nut, also present friction, as the string can still slide around unless the nut is mounted precisely correctly, which on a strat, requires a shim such as this: http://www.tampaguitarrepair.com/websit ... _1_033.htm
The nut must be positioned so that the strings are pulled down into the nut enough so that they don't make sitar sounds, but not so much that there is excessive friction, and it must also be positioned so there is not excessive length behind the nut so that slack is reduced to a minimum, or else the lock mechanism is useless as there will still be string slippage over the nut. Also, notice how the string deflects down into the nut, goes through the lock, and then goes straight to the top of the tuning key. This keeps the string from changing pitch when the lock is engaged. A double locking system such as the Floyd rose, which grips the string at both ends is more secure, and the pivot action of the bridge against the posts doesn't have the squeaks and creaks that the saddle wheels and pivot post/bearing mechanism that the Kahler system almost always ineviteably has without constant cleaning and oiling.
With both systems, the string must be fully stretched before locking the nut down or else they won't stay in tune, and the lock nut must be secured to the neck in a manner that allows no movement of the nut, IE slightly loose screws that don't bite tightly into the wood and allow a slight shifting or creaking.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

If the Kahler is making noise and a little lube doesn't help, there may be other problems requiring removal of the unit and replacing or adjusting the parts. As for the string, I alway soldered the wrap at the ball ends to reduce any chance of slippage.

Stringlock mounting seldom proved a problem on Les Pauls or other guitars with angled pegheads. For Strats I used nylon string tree spacers that provided a little squish factor to reduce the angle to the machine heads.

As for sitar sounds, I used to get that from Rose locking nuts. Their production standards had a pretty wide variance in my opinion, and some needed a little help after installation. Of course, if one or two strings needed to be lowered... you were outta luck. That metal is harder than the hubs of hell so filing or grinding wasn't gonna work. Setting them up was more compromise than anything. Same for the individual saddles - they might vary as much as .005 thousandths. Made doing precise setups an excercise in frustration.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I guess it comes down to individual experience. Soldering ball ends and constantly lubing the mechanical parts to eliminate noise sounds like a PITA to me. The nuts to me always seemed problematic. Of course, the only times I really saw Kahlers in my shop was when they had those problems. In my part of town FLoyd Roses have fewer problems, nobody ever really complained about them.
I never get sitar sounds in the Floyd nuts, and precise adjusments are achieveable with shims, which is also a PITA, but once it's done it's done.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Until the next fret level or refret.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

What kinda wankage are we talking about here? Are we truly talking vibrato like surf music, or 80's hair metal whailing? If the former, any decent Fender or Wilkinson type tremolo bridge, set up right with locking tuners, will do the job just fine. If the latter, I agree with theguitarwhisperer. I've not yet found anything as solid, dependable, or reliable as the floyd rose. I know that's not what you want to hear, but in that situation, for me, I would accept nothing less. MHO(which is what you asked for).

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

But what about tone?
Floyds ,to me, are a tone robber.
kahlers sound better but are finicky.
Why not look at a Callahan or a Mann Made and a set of locking tuners with a well made nut.
Stable, toneful and less problematic

I installed a Hipshot for a friend,
and he loves it.
That's all I know.
I could never get using one of those down.
Oh wait, I used to play jazz, I guess that's why.

I was a Kahler man, myself.

For real fun, I put a Kahler bass vibrato on a client's Music Man.
Stayed in tune like a dream, and harmonics warbled like a songbird.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Wilkinsons work great for me with locking tuners. I have been wanting to try a TremKing though for a while, just haven't done it yet.
http://www.tremking.com/

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

Fingers!

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John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

Hipshot works great with staggered Klusons from Allparts.
Easy to use setup, excellent return to zero when a nut is cut well and tension is equal in springs and strings.
Hipshot sounds good also,and is made for the long haul, (no knife edges to wear out).

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How long is that in luthyears?

-Khaler: I have an 83 ax with Khaler,
Pros; 28 years old and she still works and gives me no tuning problems. Every string is height adjustable. New 7200 models are also spacing adjustable and can be locked.
Cons; I have to solder the winding on the strings to avoid them from flying off, she demands more attention, I have tu lube all the parts every time I change the strings. You can't do flutters.
-Floyd: I have 2 Floyd equipped ax´s.
Pros; Demand almost no attention, perfect tuning. They require more strength to move (than the Khalers) which I prefer. I prefer dirty women (guitars), so I like the fight of Floyds over the sissy feel of Khalers.
Cons; The individual strings are neither height or space adjustable. It takes 15 minutes to tune her up. You have to take a chunk of wood out of the guitar to install. It’s easy to lose a part or damage a srew.
Bigsby: I have a Bigsby equipped LP.
Pros; She remains in tune when you break a string or change tuning. She looks cool.
Cons; pain in the ### to change the strings. She will only dive about half a tone. No stop on going up which means you can easily break a string. Practically useless exept for slight vibrato.

I´m curious to taking out my Bigsby and installing a Stetsbar
http://stetsbar.com/stop.tail.html

Not helpful - I know - but my Strat is blocked and everything else I own is a hardtail. The way I like it.

EDIT: The only "vibrato bar" I'd consider using in the near future is a Bigsby. On a Gretch. (But mostly for the look )

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Captainate