Right, unfortunately, it's that 4.5 degrees that's killing my wrist and why I wanted to know if it were possible to flatten that angle out.
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| Author: | I.M.Noone [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
Hello all, I was lucky enough to grab up an almost-new condition vintage Hondo II Les Paul last week. Overall, I'm really enjoying it. My only issue is that its neck is angled away from the body, instead of being built with it level with the body. This makes chugging away at barre chords up high very tough of the wrist. My first thought was to shim the neck to flatten out the angle, but of course, that just gets me sky-high action and I can only lower the bridge so much before it bottoms out or the strings hit the bridge p'up surround. Should I also add a shim to the bottom of the neck cavity to raise the whole neck level as well? Any points or tips would be much appreciated. Cheers! |
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| Author: | EWC&Son [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
No offense to ya, but I think you about to ruin a good guitar. I suppose you could eliminate the angle and put a shim under the neck to raise it high enough to get the action where it needs to be, but your pickups would have to be raised way up to compensate. |
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| Author: | I.M.Noone [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
I hear you. I'd only want to do something easily reversible, but I might have to put up with angle or go looking for another guitar. Too bad, she sounds just terrific. |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
I.M.Noone wrote: I hear you. I'd only want to do something easily reversible, but I might have to put up with angle or go looking for another guitar. Too bad, she sounds just terrific. I have very little experience in the electric world (but a fair amount with acoustics) and have only just built my first Les Paul. When the neck angle is wrong with an acoustic (usually after 30 years or so) you just take it off and "reset" it. Since a LP is also a set neck, why can't you do the same here? I would assume that if you removed the neck pup you could inject steam into the neck pocket and loosen the joint, then just reset it to match the top by shimming and flossing. I found setting the neck angle on the LP to be much simplier than an acoustic with all the action adjustment at the bridge and the pickups. Basically I just made sure the neck was at 4.5 degrees to match the angle of the top and that the extension was perfectly flat, then as the last step of the setup adjusted the action with the bridge. I'm curious - do older electrics require resets like acoustics or because of the much lower tension and bigger neck pockets do they hold up better? |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
Some of those vintage Les Paul copies are bolt necks (most of them, actually). Should be no problem to shim if necessary, but make sure you can adjust the neck perfectly straight first, to get the correct angle. |
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| Author: | I.M.Noone [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
theguitarwhisperer wrote: Some of those vintage Les Paul copies are bolt necks (most of them, actually). Should be no problem to shim if necessary, but make sure you can adjust the neck perfectly straight first, to get the correct angle. Mr. Whisperer, what do you mean by adjusting the neck- in relation to the body? |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
If the guitar is a Les Paul style, with a carved top (the top has a curved "dome" shape) and a tunematic style bridge, the neck is usually set in the neighborhead of 4.5 degrees, angled back, to get the correct action and bridge height. |
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| Author: | I.M.Noone [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
Right, unfortunately, it's that 4.5 degrees that's killing my wrist and why I wanted to know if it were possible to flatten that angle out.
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
If it's just the pickup that's getting in the way, you could belt sand the bottom of the pup ring to get it lower, then adjust the bridge to the right height. Is it a set neck? |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
I.M.Noone wrote: Right, unfortunately, it's that 4.5 degrees that's killing my wrist and why I wanted to know if it were possible to flatten that angle out. In this case you can shim the BACK edge of the neck pocket to level the neck out some, until it's comfortable, and see if the bridge can go low enough to still get comfy action. If not, you can recess the bridge into the wood, but that would involve modifying a cool vintage instrument. |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
I.M.Noone wrote: Right, unfortunately, it's that 4.5 degrees that's killing my wrist and why I wanted to know if it were possible to flatten that angle out. I'm having a little trouble with this. Why is the angle of the neck to the body affecting your wrist? All LP's have the 4 degree angle, to try to change it is going to mean major surgery - the pocket will have to be shimmed or changed, the fretboard extension and top will require work to prevent a hump, the neck heels will have to be flossed, the pups will probably require moving down as will the bridge. If you change the angle too much you risk shortening the distance to the bridge which will throw the intonation off (you may run out of adjustment). In short, that is fundimental geometry of that guitar. Thousands of people play LP's with that neck angle - it might be your technique or it might be that the guitar isn't suited for you. |
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| Author: | I.M.Noone [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
Freeman, you may be right, it may not be the guitar for me. I've since tried several other LP models with different neck angles at Guitar Center and spoken with owners of other '70s "lawsuit" Pauls that say their necks are actually flatly parallel to the body. I mostly play barre chords, Johnny Ramone style and the straight necks are just more comfortable on my wrist, especially when barre-ing above the 7th fret. That said, I've been advised on another forum that it's possible to place a 2.5mm block of wood in the heel cavity and shim from there on this model which I might try. |
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| Author: | Sandywood [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
I.M.Noone wrote: Right, unfortunately, it's that 4.5 degrees that's killing my wrist and why I wanted to know if it were possible to flatten that angle out. You may also have a tension issue. If you find you're playing very tight and not relaxed then it may not be the guitar at all. Neck thickness could also be a factor. If you haven't checked different neck contours such as soft V ( thick vs thin) you may want to. Physical pain from playing can be caused by many things...I'm mentioning that just in case although it sounds like you've determined the case. |
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| Author: | nyazzip [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
Quote: I've since tried several other LP models with different neck angles at Guitar Center and spoken with owners of other '70s "lawsuit" Pauls that say their necks are actually flatly parallel to the body. ...any guitar that faintly resembles a Les Paul will use a "Tune-o-matic" type bridge and tailpiece setup, and use of this setup necessarily means an angled neck. i don't see any way around that. furthermore, it is this angled setup which allows extremely low action high up on the neck; that is why, in part, that the les paul is so revered. so: if your les paul knockoff has high action, then there is another reason, and it should have little to do with the angled neck geometry. thats how i see it anyway. Hondos are known to be pieces of garbage. i'm no guitar snob, but many of the '70s Paul copies were horrible hunks of crap. i used to have one. forget about image/the need to have a "les paul", and find a guitar that actually works. this does not mean you have to spend lots of money. |
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| Author: | I.M.Noone [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Les Paul-type Neck Angle change |
Thanks for your input, I'm definitely getting the point about the angled necks. I'm not going to defend any need to have a Les Paul or any image as I'm using it mostly to record in the back bedroom. I didn't spend a lot on it and it sounds wonderful for what I'm playing. Yes, it's a cheapy for sure, but the neck itself it very comfortable. Again, it's only the neck angle I don't care for and probably something I'll just live with, no biggie. I'm sure I can sell if off for what I paid for it should another fun guitar present itself. |
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