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cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
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Author:  nyazzip [ Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:56 am ]
Post subject:  cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
still not sure if i am going to go the "boxtar" route. i couldn't bring myself to order a proper spruce top for this level of experimentation, so....
after picking thru a mountain of cedar boards at a home improvement store, i finally found a 12" wide board that had a lot of good quartered wood in it. good for violins and ukes anyway.
i was going to just gouge it down into the thickness ballpark with U-gouges, but then tonight i thought i'd give a shot at splitting it with a hand saw. double my yield that way too!
man it is a lot of work sawing thru 18" of endgrain, let me tell you! i knew it would be bad, but man, it is slow. got maybe 1/3rd done this eve, then quiet time came around so i had to quit.
not sure what kind of cedar the big box improvement stores here sell. it is generally quite pinkish in color. .
this will probably make a top for a boxtar classical. when joined it should be close to 14" width. the wood towards the heart is totally sketchy though; it was probably a 16"-18"diameter tree when harvested. looks like the early years were good years, and times got tough! very tight grain on the outer. cheers


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Author:  John A [ Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
I think that will make a great top.
You may have more luck trying a pull saw for this type of cutting - it has a thinner kerf and is generally sharper as well.
Author:  MikeH [ Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
Man, I have tried something similar to this, and it has always ended in absolute failure for me. I tried on numerous pine board scraps. It seems I am never able to keep the saw level through the cut, and once the cut gets deep enough that most of the saw is in the cut, it constantly gets jammed up in there. I feel as though it would work better if I could lubricate the saw in some way, but I cant think of anything that wouldn't stain the wood. Maybe I didn't have the right saw... Kudos to you if you can make it happen!
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
MikeH wrote:
Man, I have tried something similar to this, and it has always ended in absolute failure for me. I tried on numerous pine board scraps. It seems I am never able to keep the saw level through the cut, and once the cut gets deep enough that most of the saw is in the cut, it constantly gets jammed up in there. I feel as though it would work better if I could lubricate the saw in some way, but I cant think of anything that wouldn't stain the wood. Maybe I didn't have the right saw... Kudos to you if you can make it happen!


http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Inlay/Cutting_Lubricant.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=3518
Author:  Mitch Johnson [ Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
Well you can cancel that gym membership for the week :lol: . It looks alot like Western Red Cedar to me. Good luck on the rest of your cuttin'.
Author:  John Coloccia [ Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
Run the teeth through a stick of paraffin, and put a squiggle down each side of the saw plate too. That sucker will cut like you never knew it could. If you don't have a block of paraffin, a candle is...well...a block of paraffin.
Author:  nyazzip [ Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
got er done, and glued up. whew!
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
Excellent work! I've tried this as well, and didn't even make it half way before drifting too far off course and one half was too thin.

I shudder to think what it would be like with rosewood eek
Author:  nyazzip [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
thinning with u-gouges. those 2 knots are a B!

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Author:  Tyler [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
I've been having great results from a rip saw I found at a thrift store and modified.

Wax and a wider set helps a lot but a bigger problem is too many teeth-- with a deep cut like that 3-5 teeth per inch is what you want, else there is just too much drag. So you should mark off every third or fifth tooth (or whatever adds up to the teeth per inch you want), and grind off the rest. I stipulate an odd-number count off because that will maintain the alternating set of the teeth. While you're at it you should carve the teeth a deeper gullet to give the sawdust somewhere to go.
I recommend a bench or angle grinder, and work slowly, doing a little bit at a time in different places to keep heat from building up and ruining the temper of the remaining teeth.
Leave all the teeth near the handle for two inches or so to help start the cut.

I got the idea from here: Giant Cypress

When I have a camera handy I'll post a picture of my saw. I cut my first soundboard with a saw not unlike yours, nyazzip, and my second with an unmodified rep saw. The third was after some judicious grinding, and the cuts now go much faster and it's easier to steer.
Author:  nyazzip [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cedar top, the hard way(and cheep way!)
hm interesting; i know very little about saw mechanics.....my only complaint was the time it took to do this; as far as binding and difficulty i had little complaint. the saw was brand new, one of the cheap "impulse" tempered models. those teeth are very prone to breaking off, but luckily i did not have that problem this time.
the main problem (i think) was cutting through miles of end grain. had i been able to cut across the grain i think the job would have been much easier and faster, but the piece of wood was just too long for that. it seemed to help to cut at a 45 degree angle to the grain.
i would like to have one of those "maebiki" saws that you linked to, Ty. perhaps some day i will try my hand at modifying a saw.
i did try a landscaping bow saw, but as you can imagine they don't track at all due to the band/ribbon style blade, and anyway the depth is limited to 6-8" due to the spine tube....
in the end it worked out, but now i need a back! and a planer!:D
cheers
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