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Neck relief - unusual build
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=35822		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Thecamelstory [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Neck relief - unusual build
Me: building first ever electric guitar. Limited experience of working with wood, approaching this as an engineering project. 

Project: one piece Carbon Fibre electric guitar. The design and production technique will mean an extremely rigid and PERFECTLY flat neck  surface on which I will mount a fingerboard. There will be no truss below this surface.  I was thinking of buying a ready made slotted and compound radiused  StewMac board to mount on top of said project. 

My questions are about  neck relief. With the above scenario, how would you go about building relief into the neck? ANY advice gratefully received.
Author:  Thecamelstory [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck relief - unusual build
Options already considered
1. Shave a little off back of board prior to mounting it. Then bend it slightly when mounting it. Worried this will not be strong or conducive to good tone as well as closing up fret slots a little.
2. When making carbon fibre neck build a little relief into it by laminating some extra layers of fibre in the appropriate areas of the neck.
3. Working with the top of the board. Complicated by my lack of wood experience and the accuracy required, especially as a compound radius is desired.
4. Working with the fret levelling. Either by hammering some frets in harder (!) or more aggressively levelling frets in some areas of the neck. Don't think this is a serious option. Don't think that would allow enough relief anyway but would mean a seriously ropey fret job.

ANY advice gratefully received. Thanks in advance.
Author:  RogerC108 [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck relief - unusual build
Well, the problem is that different people need/like different amounts of relief due to agressiveness when playing and string size.

I guess I'd figure out my perfect relief and then shape the back of the fretboard so that it produces said relief on the front side. My only thinking in doing it that way is that you could conceivably remove the fretboard and put on a different one with different relief later idunno

You could handle fret leveling by putting frets in and leveling before adding the relief, just as you would on a regular wood neck.

I wouldn't think you'd want to build in relief by doing it in the frets.
Author:  Thecamelstory [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck relief - unusual build
Thanks. I was thinking along the same lines. The guitar is for me and I do like a slight relief to avoid buzz on louder notes. If I understand correctly you mean that I should shave some of the back then bond it to the flat neck surface bending slightly transferring the relief to the top of the fingerboard. That leads to more questions:
1) where on the neck should I centre the shaving for optimum relief (assume strat scale)? I am going for compound radius cos I play all over the neck not just open chords or high pitch solos but both. I have had under the 8th fret suggested. Any thoughts?
2) I am going for a ready made wood fingerboard for ease, but any thoughts which wood to use. Think purely on tone or ease of working? Aesthetically I would veer towards ebony or maple as I don't think rosewood would look good with the carbon fibre black of the rest of the instrument.
3) by choosing CF as my material I was wanting to do away with the flexibility and susceptibility of wood to climatic conditions and string tension. Should I consider less rigidity and perhaps incorporate a two way truss into the design?
Author:  cphanna [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck relief - unusual build
I frankly don't know whether this is a good, bad, or indifferent idea, but you said any and all ideas welcome, so here it is: Instead of shaving the bottom of the fingerboard, why not sand in your relief while you are putting the radius onto the top of the board? You could saw the affected fret slots slightly deeper, install the frets, and then use a shorter sanding block / file / stone / whatever, to "level" the frets.
Seems to me you'd end up in the same place, and be able to measure your progress a lot more easily as you go. As far as your ideal relief goes, do you already have a guitar set up with your ideal relief? If so, you have "master" from which you can take all your measurements, including the depth of your relief at its deepest point.
Author:  Thecamelstory [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck relief - unusual build
Thanks cphanna. I really want to build a guitar with a compound radius, and I don't have a CnC machine and I don't rate my ability to get it right using radius sanding blocks. So I want to avoid it (and also avoid slotting for frets) by buying a pre radiused and slotted board. I do have another guitar that I LOVE playability wise, but that's on a Gibson scale bit this one will be longer Fender scale length so the measurements might not translate.
Author:  cphanna [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck relief - unusual build
That's okay, but I still don't see any problem based on what you've written. You wouldn't be slotting from scratch. I use pre-slotted boards, too. You'd only be deepening some of the slots in the affected area. Now...I don't do compound radiused boards (at least not on purpose, but I sand my radius with a stew-mac radius block, and since hand pressure when sanding isn't a measurable thing--nor is keeping the block absolutely flat and level, and since I taper my boards before sanding the radius--my boards might be more compound that I realize. .....or not. Regardless, it seems to me this would still be an easier approach.

I am not pretending to be an expert on these matters. I build by intuition all too often and I fly by the seat of my pants most of the time. You need to take any suggestion I offer with a large grain of salt. But I do think you could make this approach work much easier than shaving the bottom of the board. You have no reference whatsoever for shaving the bottom. But you have a near reference if you approach matters from the top. I am pretty sure you could make that work more easily.

Patrick
Author:  Chameleon [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck relief - unusual build
I think a simpler and more reliable way to solve your problem, no offense, is to install a truss rod. For my, a truss rod is always less about adding strength and more about fine tuning the setup on the guitar.

My two cents.
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