Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - No more beeswax for pickup potting

Oh yeah I hate that stupid crap, like people saying they can hear a difference in tone with different 9volt batteries. Biggest factor on tone is wood selection and pickups, pickups ring the major factor in that.

For most folks, they can't detect the diff..... but there are a few who have the most sensitive and discerning abilities (Eric Johnson, etc.). THOSE folks are what really makes lutherie worthwhile to those who provide the instruments.

I had two clients who were able to split those hairs pretty fine.... their hearing and skilled touches were incredible to witness. Being able to meet that higher bar for those clients really honed my skills as a luthier.

Hopefully, ALL OF US will have one or two people in our circle who can help us reach our full potential - to strive beyond the norms of very good to greatness.

So.... don't sneer, Roger and Jimmy. If you get your chance to step up your game, you'll change your tune.

One of these days, you'll find out I'm right...

And, Roger - you can eat dogpoop for casting aspersions on my customer relation skills.

Sure, Chris. And the same to you for insinuating that anyone who can't tell a difference in such minutae is simply not up to snuff :roll:

Quote:

Sure, Chris. And the same to you for insinuating that anyone who can't tell a difference in such minutae is simply not up to snuff :roll:

I don't think I insinuated any such thing. You might be missing my point, Roger - that hopefully one of these specially skilled players will challenge you to up your game as a luthier. Don't you want to make your instruments better? That's all I'm saying.

It would be a boring old world if all players had the same level of skills - we'd have no reason to make better instruments.

I read that and thought you were insinuating that since you had 2 clients who honed your abilities as a luthier that you were now several notches up, and if Roger and Jimmy were lucky enough to someday have such clients, THEY TOO could maybe someday reach your pinnacle, assuming they are smart enough to take advantage.

Is anyone going to look at and comment on the pictures I posted on my thread?

Lindy Fralin doesn't use beeswax in his mix anymore. That in and of itself isn't anything newsworthy, but the reason he's putting out there is. He said he doesn't use beeswax anymore because it has a damping effect that he doesn't like.

Nope...just sitting back for once and enjoying the show. Besides, I have no dog in this fight...I pot all mine in ear wax...if it's good enough for my primary auditory organs, it's good enough for potting.

Author:	RogerC108 [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:	No more beeswax for pickup potting
I just got the latest Stewmac email newsletter about potting pickups and it had some very interesting information. According to them, Lindy Fralin doesn't use beeswax in his mix anymore. That in and of itself isn't anything newsworthy, but the reason he's putting out there is. He said he doesn't use beeswax anymore because it has a damping effect that he doesn't like. Really?! He can hear the difference between paraffin and beeswax now?! Give me a break. If you want the real reason as to why he doesn't use beeswax, simply google prices on paraffin and beeswax. Paraffin is around $1.50/lb while beeswax is upwards of $5. I would've had a lot more respect for him if he'd said, "You know, there really isn't any sonic difference and paraffin is more readily available." But if he'd just said that, I guess he wouldn't have added any more voodoo to his brand.

Author:	jimmysux [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Oh yeah I hate that stupid crap, like people saying they can hear a difference in tone with different 9volt batteries. Biggest factor on tone is wood selection and pickups, pickups ring the major factor in that.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Quote: Oh yeah I hate that stupid crap, like people saying they can hear a difference in tone with different 9volt batteries. Biggest factor on tone is wood selection and pickups, pickups ring the major factor in that. For most folks, they can't detect the diff..... but there are a few who have the most sensitive and discerning abilities (Eric Johnson, etc.). THOSE folks are what really makes lutherie worthwhile to those who provide the instruments. I had two clients who were able to split those hairs pretty fine.... their hearing and skilled touches were incredible to witness. Being able to meet that higher bar for those clients really honed my skills as a luthier. Hopefully, ALL OF US will have one or two people in our circle who can help us reach our full potential - to strive beyond the norms of very good to greatness. So.... don't sneer, Roger and Jimmy. If you get your chance to step up your game, you'll change your tune.

Author:	jimmysux [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
That is your experience, in my experience a lot of people claim to have such discerning eardrums, however when put to a blind test you will likely find their pallet just as unrefined as the rest of ours.

Author:	Chameleon [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
I think Jimmy is right, for at least 95% of humans. I can't imagine someone in the business of such an expensive product would care about cost though, I mean you can wind a pickup for what, maybe 10-15 bucks each? Probably less. I wouldn't be surprised if he started doing it because of cost though, and just said "you know what, it sounds better this way anyway".

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Author:	jimmysux [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
One time I did something like that on another forum, and I gave people the guitar and pickups, which was a PRS Custom 24 with the HFS and VB pickups , and asked them to tell me which amp I was playing, because they were all tone snobs and knew all about amps and their different tones. I played the guitar through all 3 channels, (which was in fact giving them another hint) the channels were clean, crunch, and lead on the amp. All I had was the guitar plugged straight into the amp, no effects at all. Not a single person guessed the amp correctly, there were a variety of guesses, bogner, marshall, 5150, Diezel, etc..... What it really was? A bugera 333xl. A cheap tube amp that they all thought was something of a much higher price tag. To sit there and claim there is a tonal difference in waxes, or 9volt batteries is a total crock, I could almost guarantee that Lindy Fralin himself would not be able to tell the difference in sound if you played one of his beeswax pickups versus a parrafin in a blind test.

Author:	RogerC108 [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Chris Pile wrote: For most folks, they can't detect the diff..... but there are a few who have the most sensitive and discerning abilities (Eric Johnson, etc.). THOSE folks are what really makes lutherie worthwhile to those who provide the instruments. I had two clients who were able to split those hairs pretty fine.... their hearing and skilled touches were incredible to witness. Being able to meet that higher bar for those clients really honed my skills as a luthier. Hopefully, ALL OF US will have one or two people in our circle who can help us reach our full potential - to strive beyond the norms of very good to greatness. So.... don't sneer, Roger and Jimmy. If you get your chance to step up your game, you'll change your tune. Yes, Chris, and there are those who will all-too-willingly tell the people who think they can tell a difference that they are absolutely correct and must have a very discerning ear. It's a lot better for profit margins.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
One of these days, you'll find out I'm right... And, Roger - you can eat dogpoop for casting aspersions on my customer relation skills.

Author:	alan stassforth [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Most important is the amp. Then the pick-ups. Then the wood. Truth. Wax? Ha!

Author:	Shaw [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Remember the Pepsi Challenge? They held one of these in my aunts ice cream parlor back in the day. It was a joke. About 99% of the people couldn't decide what was what. An equal amount picked Coke as did Pepsi. Then Pepsi just edited the results to favor their product.

Author:	RogerC108 [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Chris Pile wrote: One of these days, you'll find out I'm right... And, Roger - you can eat dogpoop for casting aspersions on my customer relation skills. Sure, Chris. And the same to you for insinuating that anyone who can't tell a difference in such minutae is simply not up to snuff

Author:	AlBDarned [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
I don't really claim to know one way or another, but look at the blind Strad violin tests, or blind wine tastings or anything like that, and it's pretty clear that perception = reality for some percentage of the population anyway ... my guess the vast majority at least.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Quote: Sure, Chris. And the same to you for insinuating that anyone who can't tell a difference in such minutae is simply not up to snuff I don't think I insinuated any such thing. You might be missing my point, Roger - that hopefully one of these specially skilled players will challenge you to up your game as a luthier. Don't you want to make your instruments better? That's all I'm saying. It would be a boring old world if all players had the same level of skills - we'd have no reason to make better instruments.

Author:	charliewood [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
There are people who have perfect pitch - and there are people who dont... There are people who can discern the different spices and ingredients in a dish and there are those who cannot There are those who can see better than the average person who has 20/20.. which is supposedly "perfect" vision...i.e. certain pilots, snipers, etc Im not sure if its sense training or inhierant or what - but I have seen it... Whether Lindy Fralin actually does in this instance - I dunno! Alot of people will pretend to have better cognitive abilities (of one sort or another) than others when they actually do not - and I think this muddies the waters, and makes those that actually do have a higher cognitive sense of some sort ....seem as though they are full of it.... Im not saying I do - and Im not trying to be contentious, or a jerk to anyone who's posted so far - just disagreeing... I think the putting forth of differing opinions, provoking discussion, is what these forums is all about - isnt it ? Boy (I think) it sure would be boring if only one set of opinions was offered on a forum... wouldnt it? Cheers Charliewood

Author:	Kim [ Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
RogerC108 wrote: Lindy Fralin doesn't use beeswax in his mix anymore. That in and of itself isn't anything newsworthy, but the reason he's putting out there is. He said he doesn't use beeswax anymore because it has a damping effect that he doesn't like. Fralin is too quick to judge. The guy is generalising, leaping to those obvious conclusions that laziness and lack of commitment will ladle out to anyone ready to chomp on the all you can eat every night of the week just to avoid do'in the dishes. Pickups potted with bees wax from my area produce a tone that's far too bright even for twang'in teli freaks wear'in board shorts, bong breath and a melanomas. In Australia many builders have come to understand that its a complete waist of money to folk out cash for those boutique pickups when all you really need to do to achieve the tonal out come you desire from just about 'any' old pickup is to develop a proper understanding of bees wax blend'in..Yep, a bit of Jarrahdale wax and a dash of Caboolture topped off with a dollop of Wangaratta Wattle will turn even a 90's Korean nightmare humbucker into a ballzy Teli neck blues monster....its all in the blend'in Fralin you just need commit yourself to the learning curve. Cheers Kim

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Author:	theguitarwhisperer [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Chris Pile wrote: Quote: Oh yeah I hate that stupid crap, like people saying they can hear a difference in tone with different 9volt batteries. Biggest factor on tone is wood selection and pickups, pickups ring the major factor in that. For most folks, they can't detect the diff..... but there are a few who have the most sensitive and discerning abilities (Eric Johnson, etc.). THOSE folks are what really makes lutherie worthwhile to those who provide the instruments. I had two clients who were able to split those hairs pretty fine.... their hearing and skilled touches were incredible to witness. Being able to meet that higher bar for those clients really honed my skills as a luthier. Hopefully, ALL OF US will have one or two people in our circle who can help us reach our full potential - to strive beyond the norms of very good to greatness. So.... don't sneer, Roger and Jimmy. If you get your chance to step up your game, you'll change your tune. Chris Pile wrote: Quote: Sure, Chris. And the same to you for insinuating that anyone who can't tell a difference in such minutae is simply not up to snuff I don't think I insinuated any such thing. You might be missing my point, Roger - that hopefully one of these specially skilled players will challenge you to up your game as a luthier. Don't you want to make your instruments better? That's all I'm saying. It would be a boring old world if all players had the same level of skills - we'd have no reason to make better instruments. I read that and thought you were insinuating that since you had 2 clients who honed your abilities as a luthier that you were now several notches up, and if Roger and Jimmy were lucky enough to someday have such clients, THEY TOO could maybe someday reach your pinnacle, assuming they are smart enough to take advantage.

Author:	jimmysux [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Hell, I was just happy to be called very good.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Quote: I read that and thought you were insinuating that since you had 2 clients who honed your abilities as a luthier that you were now several notches up, and if Roger and Jimmy were lucky enough to someday have such clients, THEY TOO could maybe someday reach your pinnacle, assuming they are smart enough to take advantage. No, that certainly wasn't what I meant. I'm didn't intend for it was taken that way. All I meant was that having such extra talented folks prod me to do better was a good thing, and I hope all luthiers are provided with such a chance. I definitely have holes in my arsenal of skills and abilities, and am still learning after 35 years of repairing and building guitars. I don't do it for a living anymore, but will be a student of the art till the day I die.

Author:	Elikeatts [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Is anyone going to look at and comment on the pictures I posted on my thread?

Author:	Chris Pile [ Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Quote: Is anyone going to look at and comment on the pictures I posted on my thread? You have a good start, Eli!

Author:	alan stassforth [ Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Elikeatts wrote: Is anyone going to look at and comment on the pictures I posted on my thread? It's easier to look at if the pics are on the forum, and not on the photobucket link. Just sayin'. Looks good so far.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
I've been waiting for Todd's two cents.... I was hoping for a little more.

Author:	Chameleon [ Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No more beeswax for pickup potting
Over at the Telecaster forum everybody says not to wax em at all! They say it kills the mojo of your pickups! Not saying I agree, just throwing it out there... You know what's even better than making a smart alleck response to something that questions your stance on a subject? Doing more research and supporting your claim with real life evidence! Or in the very least, admitting that you do not have all the answeres, but still believe it to be the way you have claimed. I'm a Leo, I know from experience, once you begin to accept that you are not always right, you become right more often. So mind your manners! Be polite! And no video games for a week! You better think about what you just did!