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Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=37196		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Irving [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
Accidentally ordered 14 1/2" truss rods from LMI. (overall length 15 1/2")

The electric truss rods are 17". (overall length of 18")

It's a 2 1/2" difference in length and that is the only difference.

The short rod ends under the 15th fret while the long rod would end between the 19th and 20th frets.

Wondering if I can get away with using these shorter rods on three electric guitars or if I'll regret it later. Anyone ever built an electric with a shorter rod?
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
I wouldn't presume to tell you that would work.

Exactly why wouldn't you return it and get the right size?
Author:  charliewood [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
I have a couple Marting truss rods that I got in a package deal - I was kind of wondering whether I could use em for electric projects also....
watching this thread curiously Eat Drink
Cheers
Charliewood

PS " using a shorter rod " hehe e heeeheee
Even if someone is - will they admit it?
Author:  Irving [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
I actually did do it once a couple of years ago. The neck had near perfect relief upon stringing it up and I only had to give it a minor backwards adjustment and it worked just fine. If I had to give it more of a major straightening, I'm not sure if there would be much of a difference or not. Clearly the center bending spot of the shorter truss rod would be a bit closer to the nut. But only by about 1 1/4". I imagine that the neck would bend a slight bit differently when applying force through it. It also wouldn't have the steel rod going into the neck pocket. Though if using hard maple or other hardwood neck options it may well not matter.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
Should work fine, provided you put the adjustment at the headstock end, as implied in the OP. The relief needs to be more toward the nut (from frets 3 to 10 or so), and a shorter rod may even work better.
Putting the adjustment at the heel may not work, as shifting the relief curve that direction will probably require more relief, and in a stiffer part of the neck.
Author:  Irving [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
Rodger Knox wrote:
Should work fine, provided you put the adjustment at the headstock end, as implied in the OP. The relief needs to be more toward the nut (from frets 3 to 10 or so), and a shorter rod may even work better.
Putting the adjustment at the heel may not work, as shifting the relief curve that direction will probably require more relief, and in a stiffer part of the neck.


Very good point. Yeah I am planning to use them with the adjustment at the nut. The guitars they are intended for have 24.9" scale lengths.
Author:  dzsmith [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
I'm by no means an expert, but it seems like having a long unsuported area near the heel would not be a good idea.
Author:  Irving [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
There are lots of guitars out there with no truss rod at all. Fenders throughout the years have been made with no truss rods and you can still buy custom shop models without them. I suppose it just requires some very precise building technique so that a certain gauge of string will give you perfect relief without needing any truss rod tweaking.
Author:  dzsmith [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
Irving wrote:
There are lots of guitars out there with no truss rod at all. Fenders throughout the years have been made with no truss rods and you can still buy custom shop models without them. I suppose it just requires some very precise building technique so that a certain gauge of string will give you perfect relief without needing any truss rod tweaking.

I doubt if Fender left them out for a "quality" improvement. I would say more, but I do not want to offend anyone. I'd still go with a standard truss rod length to avoid any suprises.
Author:  Irving [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
dzsmith wrote:
Irving wrote:
There are lots of guitars out there with no truss rod at all. Fenders throughout the years have been made with no truss rods and you can still buy custom shop models without them. I suppose it just requires some very precise building technique so that a certain gauge of string will give you perfect relief without needing any truss rod tweaking.

I doubt if Fender left them out for a "quality" improvement. I would say more, but I do not want to offend anyone. I'd still go with a standard truss rod length to avoid any suprises.


I doubt anyone would be offended by voicing your opinion on truss rod-less fender necks. I'd love to hear it actually. I've never played a no truss rod guitar and I don't really know too much about them. My only point was that it can be successfully done, it just doesn't leave much room for error in creating the neck and it kind of limits your string gauge usage. So, if no truss rod can work, it lends a little more credit to using a slightly shorter rod.
Author:  nutsdan [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
What is the body shape like? It would be much more effective on a single cut type arrangement that has body support up till the 15th fret. Much more problematic if it is a long scale 24 fret double cut
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
The truss rod's primary function is to provide some adjustability to the relief in the neck, it is generally not needed for structural reinforcement of a neck that is properly constructed of good materials. I always recommend a two way rod, particularly to new builders, because my first few necks were too stiff for the strings to pull in ANY relief, and I needed the two way rod. I always use laminated necks, usually with maple, and they are plenty stiff enough without a rod. A solid mahogany neck would probably be OK as well, but I've never done a solid mahogany neck. The truss rod only becomes important structurally if the neck is poorly constructed or the materials are questionable.
Author:  Chameleon [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
I'd return them. Would it be worth the money you paid for them if you ended up with an S shaped neck? Not worth the risk in my mind.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
Actually, an S shaped neck is what you WANT. A little relief between the first and 12th fret and a little dropoff above the 15th fret, that's sort of an S.
Author:  Irving [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
I'm going to use them. I'll let you know how it worked out in a few months.
Author:  Chameleon [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
Rodger Knox wrote:
Actually, an S shaped neck is what you WANT. A little relief between the first and 12th fret and a little dropoff above the 15th fret, that's sort of an S.


Not totally convinced, maybe you could explain in a little more detail?
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
I'm not sure I can explain, you need to really understand something to be able to explain it, but I'll give it a shot. :) First off, I'm talking about very small numbers, beyond my ability to measure with the tools I have available, so all quantitative content is no more than an educated guess. From doing a number of setups, my impressions are that there needs to be a small amount of curvature between the nut and about the 12th to 14th fret. This is small, probably 0.01" or less, so it's difficult to tell exactly where it "needs" to end. This allows the action at the 12th fret to be low enough that the change in angle between the fretted and unfretted string is small enough that the frets on up the neck need to be a little lower to keep from buzzing.
This applies primarily to electrics, because the action at the 12th fret has to be very low (less that about 0.08") to require any dropoff on up the neck. The dropoff is also very small, and is usually part of the fretwork. Does that sound reasonable?
Author:  Irving [ Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acoustic Truss Rod in Electric
The timing of things here have allowed me not to have to use these rods right away anymore. So I am returning them and getting the longer ones. Though I think the shorter rods would have functioned close to the same. These are going to be 24 fret set neck electrics with the neck joint between the 21st and 22nd fret. So given the luxury of choice, clearly I want the longer rods.
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