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Real Brazilian Rosewood?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=40240		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rooknroll [ Thu May 02, 2013 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Real Brazilian Rosewood?
Hi all,
I am new to the forum, and definitely new to woods. I am getting a guitar built by a friend. I decided to try to get a piece of Brazilian rosewood large enough for the neck, and won an auction for a billet on ebay. However, after doing some research, i started reading on how common it is to sell other woods under Brazilian Rosewood name on ebay, and even read that this specific ebayer has been selling Madagascar rosewood as Brazilian.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-BRAZILIAN-RO ... true&rt=nc

Anybody with experience working with this wood, is this Brazilian? He also claims it is quartersawn, but read that most of his pieces are not. Finally, is this even a good piece for building a neck? Help would be greatly appreciated.
Author:  ZekeM [ Thu May 02, 2013 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
I'm not good enough to be able to tell a species from pictures. There are some people here with much more experience than me and I'm sure they will chime in. That said I'd be very skeptical about this being brazilian. No cites paperwork and no description of where it came from, how old it is, or anything of that nature that usually accompanies Brazilian due to its high regulation. I am not so sure this is actual Brazilian. That said it looks pretty straight grained and would probably make a decent neck, or two.
Author:  askins [ Thu May 02, 2013 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
I can tell you that I asked that seller several times if he was selling dalbergia nigra. He never answered. I never bothered looking at his auctions again.
Author:  dzsmith [ Thu May 02, 2013 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
Whatever it is, it looks pretty nice.
I don't believe anyone selling timber labeled as Brazilian Rosewood or Cuban Mahogany really know what they have without documentation.
Author:  ZekeM [ Thu May 02, 2013 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
dzsmith wrote:
Whatever it is, it looks pretty nice.
I don't believe anyone selling timber labeled as Brazilian Rosewood or Cuban Mahogany really know what they have without documentation.

I agree, though there are a few instances without documentation where the seller knows the story of when and where the wood came from that I would accept.

It is nice wood though and should make a fine couple of necks.
Author:  Rooknroll [ Thu May 02, 2013 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
Thanks a lot for the info. I did some reading, and some people say SOME of his pieces are BR, while others are not (he usually covers them completely with wax to cover the grain). The man claims that he has had the wood for over 35 years, saying he was a furniture maker, so he wouldn't really need documentation for wood he had pre-ban. What a bummer though, I actually have a Cuban Mahogany body blank (this one is real ;) ) and wanted to put a BR neck on it. Is there a way I can know for sure? (i.e., should I wait to receive the piece, then take it to a luthier who can actually tell me, or just cancel the order on what the wook looks like on pics?)
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Fri May 03, 2013 3:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
I've bought some of his stuff. That piece you posted is Dalbergia Cultrata. I have a very similar set. It's nice wood, just not BRW. He sells Pau Ferro as BRW too. If the price is right, go ahead and buy it. If not, keep looking. I wish someone would give him bad feedback. I feel like he is the chief contributor to the many people re-sawing and selling BRW that is not BRW. No way anyone has that much BRW laying around.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Fri May 03, 2013 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
dzsmith wrote:
Whatever it is, it looks pretty nice.
I don't believe anyone selling timber labeled as Brazilian Rosewood or Cuban Mahogany really know what they have without documentation.


A few years ago I had a veneer factory sell me some old Brazilian rosewood with documentation from their sister factory in Brazil. About 90% of it was Pau Ferro, 5% real BRW, and 5% who knows what. I don't think there was anything nefarious going on, but rather the guys at the factory here simply didn't know the difference. It was an expensive lesson: documentation or not there's no substitute sometimes for a knowledgeable and trustworthy source.
Author:  A.Hix [ Fri May 03, 2013 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
fingerstyle1978 wrote:
I've bought some of his stuff. That piece you posted is Dalbergia Cultrata. I have a very similar set. It's nice wood, just not BRW. He sells Pau Ferro as BRW too. If the price is right, go ahead and buy it. If not, keep looking. I wish someone would give him bad feedback. I feel like he is the chief contributor to the many people re-sawing and selling BRW that is not BRW. No way anyone has that much BRW laying around.

Yep, it is dalbergia cultrata. That guy is a dishonest THIEF. I wouldnt patronize him at all if I were any of you.
Author:  ZekeM [ Fri May 03, 2013 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
A.Hix wrote:
Yep, it is dalbergia cultrata. That guy is a dishonest THIEF. I wouldnt patronize him at all if I were any of you.

curious. How can you tell from the picture?

(I'm tryin to learn me some stuff)
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Fri May 03, 2013 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
Film4 is well known for selling other wood as BRW. The picture was not even necessary in this case just based on the seller!
Author:  A.Hix [ Fri May 03, 2013 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
ZekeM wrote:
A.Hix wrote:
Yep, it is dalbergia cultrata. That guy is a dishonest THIEF. I wouldnt patronize him at all if I were any of you.

curious. How can you tell from the picture?

(I'm tryin to learn me some stuff)

Just years and years of experience. When you know what the real stuff looks like, it is easy to spot anything that is not the true thing. And like Tony says, just the seller being who he is... enough said.
The shame of it is that I have seen pieces of this guy's wood sell for hundreds of dollars that are really worth maybe $50..
Author:  ZekeM [ Fri May 03, 2013 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
I see I see. I've never been able to look at wood and tell what it is. I was just wondering of there was certain tells that said that was a certain wood. It's a shame that guy has such a high rating when really ripping people off. I'll stick to my trusted sellers. (you are in the trusted seller list, as a matter of fact I think half of my stash is from you)
Author:  NightOwl [ Sat May 04, 2013 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
Its not just the Brazilian he is not honest about, he has sold many pieces of desert ironwood burl for big bucks and it has been said many times on knife making forums that the wood is not what he says it is. Seems like he did have some bad feedback telling about it but now ebay only counts feedback for 12 months back.
Author:  Rooknroll [ Sat May 04, 2013 3:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
Wow, thanks a bunch for the info. He just shipped the piece though. Im gonna have to wait to get it to file a claim with ebay. Amazing how someone like that can simply get away with it.

Now that you guys have brought it up, around what would be the correct price to pay for a good piece of BR big enough to make a neck out of? Do any of you supply/carry this wood?
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Wed May 15, 2013 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-artic ... rosewoods/

Here's a start....
Author:  alan stassforth [ Thu May 16, 2013 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
That piece does look like brw to me,
although it looks a bit light in color,
but brw varies.
The black part makes me think it is brw.
When you cut it,
that will tell you if it is,
if you know what brw smells like!
Nice piece of wood,
if it is what's in da pic!
Author:  klooker [ Sat May 18, 2013 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Brazilian Rosewood?
He never said Dalbergia Nigra in his listing, so it could be Amazon rosewood & he wouldn't be lying. Deceiving yes, but not lying.

True Brazilian has a very distinct smell which IMO is the easiest way to determine. You could buy an acoustic bridge blank from someone reputable (less than $15) if you want a reference FWIW.

Kevin Looker
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Sat May 18, 2013 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Real Brazilian Rosewood?
I'm sure someone has a small sample they could send you for a smell reference but its very distinct. Sand it a little and it will smell sweet, like roses, which I believe the name is derived from. It was used to make perfume for years which is what tons of trees were cut down for. The perfume industry probably bought more than any guitar company ever did.
FYI: I have some small pieces I could send for a sniff test. They're too small for a visual check, but they certainly have the scent.
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