Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey Guys , First time poster !

I wanted to post a build I had recently completed and sold to Keith Urban , this guitar is quite the unique design of mine. The name of the model is Mirus ( Latin for amazing ) , I just wanted to share this awesome build to get some opinions on it.

Spec List
Body : Ash , Obsidian Black Finish , Lower aircraft grade 5052 aluminum leg rest.
Neck: Peruvian walnut, Rosewood fingerboard/headstock trim , Semi Gloss laquer finish , graphtech nut.
Hardware: Hipshot modern bridge , Hipshot locking tuners and knobs , Custom tuner knobs and custom string ferrule plate.
Electronics: Bare Knuckle black hawk passive humbuckers , Volume and 3 way selection.

Not the best photos of Keith Urban with it as they are cell phone pictures, but none the less he loved it.

Very cool guitar.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

amazing work - woudl love to talk shop sometime. you are right around the corner from me. I'm also a queens-ite! feel free to PM me.

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Gauge Guitars
www.gaugeguitars.com

Awesome yes Id love to talk shop as well , it is amazing how many luthiers are around.

Nice work! I am a Brooklyn boy myself, but I don't make them there twangy eeeeelectric type geetars. I am a simple acoustic builder. Still...getting together would be fun.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I used more bolts to support the neck and to create a better connection ( neck to body ) that will help improve sustain on the guitar as well as durability.

Another update , here is also my latest work in progress , the first build of my Virtus model hopefully it will be done in June.

http://www.teuffel.com/

Teuffel is a famous builder that did this, Filippo. I'd wager he was one of the first.

I'm not a big fan of the basic idea but I do like more metal wrapped around the body. My thought is, on the Tueffel, the small piece he uses seems incongruous...a bit out of place whereas using more metal like Dean did makes the metal a more integral aspect of the artistic design. Good eye, Dean. I'd suggest the design would improve if the aluminum was recessed into the body such that you could run your hand around the body and have a smooth transition from body to metal instead of the bump. That'd be slicker.

But I'm really into a minimalist look and this guitar tickles me pretty well in that respect. Very elegant.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Filippo,

while the number of bolts per se may or may not affect anything,
there are quite a few respected builders that believe that the extra mass at that point of the guitar
or bass has positive effect to certain aspects of sound.
I believe that is why one Paul Reed Smith keeps building that bulky neck joint...

Well,
I would guess the placement of mass has it´s effect,
not just the overall mass. Of course the extra mass may
or may not add extra stiffness, too. And for sure it effects
to the resonant frequencys, and that can have effect to several things.

I am not saying adding extra mass at the neck joint is better or worse way to
build instruments, but I believe it may have effect to over all sound,
good or bad. And I am sure mr Smith has his reason to have that bulky heel,
he is a smart guy and would not build that unergonomic thing for no reason.
(many are arguing that is for eliminating dead spots on fretboard,
which would make sense, I guess)

i want a 6 string bass left handed for me, it is very hard to find one, and i want to get it in mexico please

True...but Smith made a transition from conventional to automated methods. The neck joint used at PRS was undoubtedly chosen to facilitate the automated manufacturer of those necks....and the acoustical "chips" fell where they did. Not that an acoustical notion or theory could never be applied to a mass manufactured instrument. Just don't underestimate how much manufacturing processes influence a final design. PRS used several processes over the years...all of them having particular limitations which would force certain compromises. It's one thing to make a musical instrument. It's an ENTIRELY different thing to make a million of them.

Fender is a better example though. Leo unashamedly worked to create processes to make electric guitars as cheaply as possible. The Stratocaster/Telecaster/Jaguar neck joints weren't created in order to obtain a particular tone but rather, a simple manufacturing process. Once having selected pickups and hardware for each model the sound coming from each model was purely random.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

I'd love to question those builders to see if they verified and tested those beliefs. It's one thing to say you believe something and discuss it theoretically...but I respect those who either admit they are speaking theoretically...or thoroughly test a belief and know what they're talking about.

To test this you'd have to build two guitars...one with a big ol' bolt-on neck joint and another with a slimmer set neck. Otherwise everything the same. My theory? Not too much difference...pretty subtle if anything.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Its almost simple physics , The neck joint is connected not by the neck fitting in the pocket but by the screws which are literrally making inside contact with both the neck and body of the guitar. The more bolts in the neck means there are more direct points for vibrations ( strumming of strings ) to pass through the screws into the body or into the neck. Basically the vibrations pass more quickly and evenly through the screws than just the neck heel being in a snug pocket. I cant really explain it to well over the net.

Also in regards to the aluminum piece of my guitar , I bend and work it 100% by hand and jig. I thought about recessing it into the wood and it is a good consideration or feature to offer. My thoughts on it not being recessed is purely design aspect , I like the metal hanging on the outside it gives it a very minimalist , modern and almost futuristic industrial look. The possibilities for the aluminum lower bout of my guitar are endless , They can be colored almost any color with anodizing and powder coating. It allows for greater customization and personalization of the guitar.

No Dean...vibration transmits via surface contact of the neck and body as it does with any other structure subject to a dynamic load. The only thing fasteners do is bring the two surfaces together to make contact.

Edit...I should have added that the minimum number of fasteners torqued to the least amount required (plus a small safety margin) to keep the two surfaces from moving relative to each other will prevent any loss of sustain through the neck joint.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Yes,
good notions on regards of PRS and mass production.

But if you think of it, isn´t the area of a neck joint the point of
a guitar which you do not want to set into motion?
If you use a bow as an analogue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48R2ajWx3rY
If you have mass and stiffness there (the middle of a string, hand placement of a bow),
it would let the energy leak out of a string, not through vibration of the bow/guitar.

Just a thought, probably not worth much.

Dean,
That is a real nice guitar. Kudos to you for your sale to Mr. Urban.

I'm not trying to pile on with my opinion of your neck joint but a short tale for you to consider on future instruments.

We were framing a new house and the home owner was an electrical engineer. Being an engineer, he knew way more about constructing houses than a bunch of carpenters. He insisted that we nailed every stud to the plates with 4 spikes instead of the usual two. Headers, according to this fellow, needed 8 fasteners every 8" instead of 5 every 16". Yep 8 nails in every floor joist through the box joist. "Plywood must have nails every 3" on the edges and every 4" in the field!" he exclaimed. Man was he stomping mad as we continued on doing our job in our usual substandard fashion.
The general had to call in a structural engineer to explain a few things to this guy. Now I didn't stay for the entire conversation as I had a schedule to keep and this gentleman had already wasted enough of my time, but the long and short of it was "too many fasteners will reduce the strength of the wood".

Now I am well aware that guitar bodies and necks are not framing lumber and that screws are not 16d cc sinkers. For all I know, you may be the first builder to ever properly fasten an electric guitar neck to it's body. Just do the math and stick it in our face or save the sales pitch for the customers.

Sorry if I've annoyed you, not my intention.
Again, I really like the look of your guitar and congratulations on the sale.

Steve

Maybe someone should've told these bridge builders that they only four bolts.

The truth is you could attach a neck with one bolt if you engineered it properly.
I think the main point of this thread is that Dean has not only made a very beautiful and unique guitar but he has sold it to a very high profile player. The bolt pattern on that axe totally suits the look of the design. Man, I would put a squillion bolts on a neck-joint if it got me a big name sale like that.
Well done, Dean.

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I've got a mind like a steel......whatsername!!?

I still believe in the bolt theory I have , I explained it to a physics professor I have and he agreed . This guitar Mirus #2 was my third guitar built from scratch and my first sale. Im only nineteen years old and I am going to hopefully work with a metal working company to work on a very special bolt system. I have many years to perfect my guitar! Thank you all for the opinions I hope this discussion and thread continues on.

I meant no offence, Filippo. I was just trying to mop up some of the rain from the young fella's parade.

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I've got a mind like a steel......whatsername!!?