Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge

If I may the OP, does the client not like the Floyd because of some problem in performance or setup, or because of the problems when changing strings?

Tim, sounds like a mod is no big deal but in case you didn't know
there is a string spread difference on the FR pro and the FR original.

Cast the cavities full of a two part urethane like Alumilite or do a combo of that and wood or epoxy and wood.

What kind of bridge is contemplated?

A Schaller one-piece or similar.

Nice bridge, used quite a few and all the feedback has been positive.

The Steve Vai Ibanez is a full floating trem so there is a shallow (3/16"?) rout below the entire bridge. Find a machinist and have them make a plate out of brass, aluminum, steel... to fit in the rout on the top. Secure it with the original bridge hardware in front of the new bridge and two added fasteners to the rear. Holes drilled and tapped for the new bridge to be attached with machine screws and your done. Don't forget to attach the ground wire to the bottom of the plate. That Schaller bridge comes with a spacer plate which gives you a lot of height adjustment.

Totally reversible, will look good, reasonable cost. What's not to love?

Steve

make a plate out of brass, aluminum, steel... to fit in the rout on the top. Secure it with the original bridge hardware in front of the new bridge and two added fasteners to the rear.

StevenWheeler wrote:

make a plate out of brass, aluminum, steel... to fit in the rout on the top. Secure it with the original bridge hardware in front of the new bridge and two added fasteners to the rear.

Not sure how this would work. How are you going to use the two studs that the knife edges fit into to secure the plate?

I have 4-5 different frankenstein guitars, and I love'm. So if he want's to hack it up, I say go for it. I've been hacking up Ibanez' for years.

Tim Mullin wrote:

A Schaller one-piece or similar.

Like this one?

Attachment:

Schaller_Non-Tremolo_Roller_Bridge_sm.jpg

Author:	Tim Mullin [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:37 am ]
Post subject:	Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Have client who loves his old Ibanez Steve Vai signature series, but hates the Floyd Rose bridge. Wants to swap out for a fixed, non- tremolo bridge. Doesn't care about looks, but total cost is a concern. Experience or recommendations on such a modification? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	nyazzip [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
can't you just jam it with a wedge and take the trem arm off, for a quick, effective, and easily reversible remedy...? i forget exactly the mechanics of the floyd rose trems but it must be possible...

Author:	Chris Pile [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Replacing the Floyd Rose with anything will be expensive - you have to fill that huge void so you'll have some wood for the new hardware to bite into. Your cheapest move is to install some wooden wedges to render the vibrato solid.

Author:	B. Howard [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
I do a few of these jobs to restore old strats that have been modified over the years. To do the job right is not cheap or easy. A standard trem can be locked down tight with ease, a Floyd not quite so much. As mentioned you can cut and fit wooden blocking in the spring cavity to keep the unit from functioning. This will need done in a way that the blocks can not shift or move allowing the unit to possibly move while playing. This is complicated by the fact that the springs will often need to be taken out to get solid enough blocking which takes away the ability to over tension the springs to keep the unit locked tight. In the end I am left wondering what is behind the request.if he doesn't use the trem just leave the arm off. They are very stable units and hold tune generally as well as a solid bridge when functioning properly. If the problem is with the function of the current bridge perhaps time and money would be better spent on repair and set up of the current system.

Author:	Joel Barbeau [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
I've never actually used one, but I've heard good things about the Tremol-No, http://www.allparts.com/tremol-no , might be worth looking into that option.

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Author:	Sandywood [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
That is a client I would try to talk some sense to. To spend money to ruin a $3,000.00 guitar is nuts. I'd have to be backed into a corner with a 12ga pointed at me brain pan. well...maybe an umpa lumpa with a swiss army knife- that would scare me too.

Author:	Pmaj7 [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
I always just put a small block in between the tremolo block and the wood, under the springs. Then, over tension the springs. It's totally solid.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
If I may the OP, does the client not like the Floyd because of some problem in performance or setup, or because of the problems when changing strings?

Author:	Sandywood [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Chris Pile wrote: If I may the OP, does the client not like the Floyd because of some problem in performance or setup, or because of the problems when changing strings? In addition; Bending can be a big reason. Unison or country style bends ( one or more notes holding pitch while bending another) are solid reasons for wanting/needing a hard-tail. I have blocked and used spring tension when needed. I'd sure go with that before modifying that axe.

Author:	dzsmith [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Does the client want a traditional nut and tuning key function as well? The client could swap the guitar for another and save some cash. I reckon the estimated conversion cost would be quite a shock.

Author:	Tim Mullin [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
I won't see the guitar until I return to Nairobi mid-January, so for now I'm going with what the client has told me by email. The guitar is far from new and was purchased second-hand for $300. Difficulty in restringing and problems with set up have been mentioned, together with getting rid of the "whammy BS". From what I can tell through google, players either love the FR, or hate it. He's in the latter camp. I gather there will be extensive cavity blocking and routing, should he go ahead. He'll evaluate the cost when I give him one, but he may opt for a lower cost mod to make the the tremolo inactive. Or I might convince him to have me make a second body, so he can keep the neck and electronics he loves. Thanks for your input ... much appreciated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	Sandywood [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Tim, sounds like a mod is no big deal but in case you didn't know there is a string spread difference on the FR pro and the FR original.

Author:	Tim Mullin [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Sandywood wrote: Tim, sounds like a mod is no big deal but in case you didn't know there is a string spread difference on the FR pro and the FR original. And the Ibanez licensed version may be different again. Most one-piece fixed bridges seem to have adjustable string spacing, but this is certainly one of the details to be finalized before going ahead. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	RTurner [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Cast the cavities full of a two part urethane like Alumilite or do a combo of that and wood or epoxy and wood. What kind of bridge is contemplated?

Author:	RTurner [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Are "we" intentionally or otherwise overlooking the likelihood that a Floyd-equipped guitar has a horrendous piece of hardware attached to the peghead end of the neck? Come on now, guys (and there are no "Y" chromosomes checking in that I can see). A guitar with a Floyd Rose system has major hardware at both ends of the strings. Changing a Floyd to a hardtail involves changing at both ends. Just start from scratch. Make a neck that's as close to the original feel as possible (no big deal...) and put a new body on it that is wood all the way. Back-engineering this into something it isn't is a losing proposition. It's too freakin' far gone to start with. It's going to suck no matter what you do.

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Author:	Chris Pile [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Quote: Cast the cavities full of a two part urethane like Alumilite or do a combo of that and wood or epoxy and wood. Oh, come on. Really? Large volumes of epoxy are sound deadeners. You might ask how I know. Back in the 70's, a client brought me a 50's ash Tele body routed from neck to bridge for 4 humbucking pickups. He wanted to go back to stock, mixed up a big batch of epoxy and poured the monstrous hole full up to the surface. Then he sanded it flat and brought it to me. I did all the routing, etc., to restore it to stock specs. Mounted the hardware, neck, and new pickups. It sounded about as musical as a meatloaf - just dead. No tone, no sustain. So I routed out all the epoxy, and glued in a mahogany patch. Last I heard he was happy as Phil Robertson.

Author:	Tim Mullin [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
RTurner wrote: What kind of bridge is contemplated? A Schaller one-piece or similar. As mentioned, I haven't yet seen the instrument on my bench, but I could imagine using my template guide and bit to create cavities with clean edges and matching Khaya plugs, but that means the mod won't be easily reversed. I'll let you know when we go forward. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	StevenWheeler [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Tim Mullin wrote: A Schaller one-piece or similar. Like this one? Attachment: Schaller_Non-Tremolo_Roller_Bridge_sm.jpg Nice bridge, used quite a few and all the feedback has been positive. The Steve Vai Ibanez is a full floating trem so there is a shallow (3/16"?) rout below the entire bridge. Find a machinist and have them make a plate out of brass, aluminum, steel... to fit in the rout on the top. Secure it with the original bridge hardware in front of the new bridge and two added fasteners to the rear. Holes drilled and tapped for the new bridge to be attached with machine screws and your done. Don't forget to attach the ground wire to the bottom of the plate. That Schaller bridge comes with a spacer plate which gives you a lot of height adjustment. Totally reversible, will look good, reasonable cost. What's not to love? Steve Edit. Forgot to add to just pull the locks off the nut and throw them in the box with the other parts. The remaining nut will work just fine and certainly looks better than some conversions I've seen.

Author:	Tim Mullin [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
StevenWheeler wrote: Like this one? That's one I was looking at -- yes. StevenWheeler wrote: Nice bridge, used quite a few and all the feedback has been positive. The Steve Vai Ibanez is a full floating trem so there is a shallow (3/16"?) rout below the entire bridge. Find a machinist and have them make a plate out of brass, aluminum, steel... to fit in the rout on the top. Secure it with the original bridge hardware in front of the new bridge and two added fasteners to the rear. Holes drilled and tapped for the new bridge to be attached with machine screws and your done. Don't forget to attach the ground wire to the bottom of the plate. That Schaller bridge comes with a spacer plate which gives you a lot of height adjustment. Totally reversible, will look good, reasonable cost. What's not to love? Steve Excellent suggestions, Steve -- many thanks. If that will work on this guitar, it could well be the route we go. I like the idea of being able to put the guitar back to original, although the client doesn't seem to be at all concerned.

Author:	RTurner [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
This is hardly a pre-war D-28! These guitars are not much more than signal generators for overdriven tube amps. So if the guy is totally hung up on this guitar, put in the time and charge the dough for a well fitted set of wood inlaid blocks, but anything is going to be better than a Floyd if one is interested in inherent tone. That's a lot of careful fitting if you're not going to simply float wood blocks in epoxy. Entirely do-able, just time consuming. And then what are you to do with the locking nut? Another big piece of a pain to deal with....bolts through the neck and all that. This is going to be a major FrankenGuitar at best. The guy would be better off with a new guitar. Sell the current one, and put together a parts guitar with wood from Warmoth or some such.

Author:	B. Howard [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
StevenWheeler wrote: make a plate out of brass, aluminum, steel... to fit in the rout on the top. Secure it with the original bridge hardware in front of the new bridge and two added fasteners to the rear. Not sure how this would work. How are you going to use the two studs that the knife edges fit into to secure the plate?

Author:	StevenWheeler [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
B. Howard wrote: StevenWheeler wrote: make a plate out of brass, aluminum, steel... to fit in the rout on the top. Secure it with the original bridge hardware in front of the new bridge and two added fasteners to the rear. Not sure how this would work. How are you going to use the two studs that the knife edges fit into to secure the plate? Same inserts different screws. The load in this area is pushing down and forward so the stock inserts will have less load than with bridge they are designed for. The rear screws will have the job of holding the bridge down to the top, a pair of 1 1/2" #10 wood screws will work nicely.

Author:	Trfsrfr [ Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
I have 4-5 different frankenstein guitars, and I love'm. So if he want's to hack it up, I say go for it. I've been hacking up Ibanez' for years. And Mr. wheelers idea sounds like an engineered thought, one that I might consider. But my initial thought was to just either make a new body for the guy, or buy one. Or have him buy another guitar. The old RG series were very similar to the Vai design, and i'm pretty sure you could get one with a hardtail, where the neck would just bolt right in.

Author:	Sandywood [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
Trfsrfr wrote: I have 4-5 different frankenstein guitars, and I love'm. So if he want's to hack it up, I say go for it. I've been hacking up Ibanez' for years. What one does to their own guitar is of no matter. Very different when dealing with anothers. I would not like to be the one that charged somebody more money than the guitar is worth or charge somebody and the work decrease the value of their guitar. It sounds like the guy has a cheap guitar of no sentimental value and is trying to get it to be something it's not. I see it playing out in a few ways; He gets the mods done and has more money into a cheap guitar that he can play. No resale value. He sells the guitar and puts the repair money with it and gets a guitar he likes and that is worth more. He keeps the guitar "as is" and puts the repair money towards a new guitar. I'd recommend keeping it and go for a new one. Especially now that one can purchase a very nice guitar for under $500.00. Wish I had kept all my old guitars. At least I kept my very first electric- '63 Harmony Stratotone.

Author:	dzsmith [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replace Floyd Rose with fixed bridge
StevenWheeler wrote: Tim Mullin wrote: A Schaller one-piece or similar. Like this one? Attachment: Schaller_Non-Tremolo_Roller_Bridge_sm.jpg Nice bridge, used quite a few and all the feedback has been positive. The Steve Vai Ibanez is a full floating trem so there is a shallow (3/16"?) rout below the entire bridge. Find a machinist and have them make a plate out of brass, aluminum, steel... to fit in the rout on the top. Secure it with the original bridge hardware in front of the new bridge and two added fasteners to the rear. Holes drilled and tapped for the new bridge to be attached with machine screws and your done. Don't forget to attach the ground wire to the bottom of the plate. That Schaller bridge comes with a spacer plate which gives you a lot of height adjustment. Totally reversible, will look good, reasonable cost. What's not to love? Steve Edit. Forgot to add to just pull the locks off the nut and throw them in the box with the other parts. The remaining nut will work just fine and certainly looks better than some conversions I've seen. I've used one of these- really great bridge. Note that it is low profile and intended for a Fender type straight neck.