I tried to put up a picture but I'm using the Tapatalk app and I can imagine it's rather flaw filled and/or I didn't do it properly ._.
As you might imagine I have little to no idea what I'm doing
| Official Luthiers Forum! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=43790 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Thedwick [ Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
I got tired of looking at this monochromatic epiphone so I went out, bought some expensive wood (lacewood in this case.) I've gotten it all glued down, cut to the general size, and have all internal holes cut pretty well, but (due to lack of foresight I've realized that I have no idea how to make the edges line up without destroying the veneer. Routing seems a little extreme and sanding is seeming impossible at the moment. Any and all insight on how to do this would be greatly appreciated As you might imagine I have little to no idea what I'm doing |
|
| Author: | dzsmith [ Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
Hey Ben, I picture would help to understand what's going on. Welcome to the forum! Dan |
|
| Author: | JasonMoe [ Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
How thick is the veneer? You just want to make it flush on the sides? If its really thin like 1/16, i'd just use a sharp chisel and then sand it down. Put masking tape around the sides so you don't ding into it with the chisel. If its thicker, you probably are going to need some sort of router and flush bit. |
|
| Author: | Van Savage [ Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
I agree with JasonMoe. I'd put two layers of binding tape or masking tape around the guitar body and flush route it. The tape will prevent the router bit bearing from marking the body, plus after making one pass you can remove one layer of tape and make another depending on the thickness of the veneer. I sounds like it's pretty thick since you said sanding was out of the question. Then you can scrape or sand it to flush. |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
I tried to put up a picture but I'm using the Tapatalk app and I can imagine it's rather flaw filled and/or I didn't do it properly ._. As you might imagine I have little to no idea what I'm doing |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
JasonMoe wrote: How thick is the veneer? You just want to make it flush on the sides? If its really thin like 1/16, i'd just use a sharp chisel and then sand it down. It's between 1/16 and 1/32 and the grain on it makes it really delicate. I've been using a Dremel to cut out all the sides and get the body shape to the general size since it's easily maneuvered. The curved edge of the original body makes it a little difficult to just sand away at. I'm not clinging too hard to the black paint so I may just have to sand it all down to the basswood (which admittedly doesn't look too bad.) As you might imagine I have little to no idea what I'm doing |
|
| Author: | John Sonksen [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
Did the veneer have a backer or is it straight lacewood all the way? If it's got a backer you shouldn't have a problem routing it, if not you'll want to be real careful and not go the wrong way. One thing I've done is take a file and use a downward stroke parallel to the sides of a piece, letting the teeth on the edge of the file trim the veneer rather than cutting with the face of the file. Of course you'd want to either tape up the face of the file or the edge of the body so you don't hammer the finish. Before I did anything I would try and get the veneer as close to the final shape as possible. The less excess you have overhanging the less chance you have at splintering a long fiber that could run onto the face of the finished section of the veneer. You could use scissors for the outside curve and an exacto knife for the inside curves. Pay attention to the grain direction and make sure whatever tools you decide to use are not cutting across the grain in a way that would push the fibers away from the body, this is what will cause splintering. This will require changing the direction you rout, sand or file based on where on the guitar you are trimming. You want to compress the fibers. This means starting at the fattest part of the lower bout and moving up to the center of the waist and stopping. Going back to the fat part of the lower bout and moving down until you get to the veneer joint at the centerline of the body. Generally, starting from a wide part and moving towards a skinny part is your safest bet. |
|
| Author: | cbrviking [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
If it were me I would use a Robosander. It might take a while but that would avoid tear-out. Are you going to put binding on? |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
cbrviking wrote: If it were me I would use a Robosander. It might take a while but that would avoid tear-out. Are you going to put binding on? I've basically been using sanding bits on the Dremel to cut it down to where it's at now. I haven't considered binding though! Is binding still easy to do if the main body is rounded out? This process would probably be infinitely easier if this was a tele or something of the likes. |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
John Sonksen wrote: Did the veneer have a backer or is it straight lacewood all the way? No backer just really thin lacewood.  the grain has already started cracking in four places so I'm trying to be increasingly careful. This binding idea is looking more and more enticing though.
|
|
| Author: | klooker [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
If you have some extra, glue it to something else like a 2x4 to mock up your situation then experiment - sharp chisel, flush cut router bit, sander, etc. I'd get close with a chisel, then a router then sand but you have to be very careful! This is similar to trimming the top & back on an acoustic after you close the box. Kevin Looker |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
klooker wrote: If you have some extra, glue it to something else like a 2x4 to mock up your situation then experiment - sharp chisel, flush cut router bit, sander, etc. Why did I not think of that lol many thanks |
|
| Author: | Van Savage [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
Route it baby, just route it!! Sounds like a song and I sing it every time I do it. The router does what you tell it to, so tell the router what to do. I love my router and she loves me! Just dig it out and be done with it. Worst case, start over, Best case, the router saves the day just like it always does because the router is Awesome!!! |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
I don't have a routing bit so how much would it cost to get a luthier to cut it for me? Seems like a pretty simple 20$ kinda thing but an estimate would be cool. |
|
| Author: | Freeman [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
Those of us who build acoustics route thin top and back plates all the time. I use a small "laminate trimmer" which you might be able to rent at Home Depot or Lowes. You will also use a "flush cut" bit which has a little ball bearing that follows the contour of the body. The big problem that you will have with a LP is that with the curved top and recurves at the edge the router will not sit vertically with respect to the sides. There are ways around this - most luthiers have some sort of floating gizmo to hold the router vertically while they make the cut, you can also shim the base or flip the guitar body over and put it face down on a router table (which is what I did with my Lester) It would also help to put a few coats of shellac on the lacewood, that will help keep if from splintering. Also, be aware that while doing the actual routing you need to make "climbing cuts" where the router bit comes down into the wood rather than tearing it up. If you decide to bind it (and I would) the same technique applies but you use bearings that are smaller than the diameter of your bit, that cuts the channel for the binding. Again, all of this is fairly standard guitar making but if you don't have the tools and have never done it before try to hook up with someone in your area that can help you. If you don't want to do the router thing at least seal the edge of the lacewood with some shellac, then the robo sander, sharp chisel, files for the pickup cavities and sanding blocks should get you done. |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
Freeman wrote: The big problem that you will have with a LP is that with the curved top and recurves at the edge the router will not sit vertically with respect to the sides. There are ways around this - most luthiers have some sort of floating gizmo to hold the router vertically while they make the cut, you can also shim the base or flip the guitar body over and put it face down on a router table (which is what I did with my Lester) It would also help to put a few coats of shellac on the lacewood, that will help keep if from splintering. Also, be aware that while doing the actual routing you need to make "climbing cuts" where the router bit comes down into the wood rather than tearing it up. If you decide to bind it (and I would) the same technique applies but you use bearings that are smaller than the diameter of your bit, that cuts the channel for the binding. Again, all of this is fairly standard guitar making but if you don't have the tools and have never done it before try to hook up with someone in your area that can help you. . I went out and bought some shellac for the lacewood and wood filler to fill the sides so it's more like a tele in that it is a straight line to cut into for binding. I have a routing table and a separate router but the router bit for binding is a solid 40$ so I'm have to find a way around that:P could it be done with a Dremel if really careful? Disregarding human error is it possible? Just bought a 260 or so piece Dremel bit set so I'll have a lot to work with. Seriously appreciating your guys's expertise too!! |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
 Pretty straight I'd say. Missing out on a curve in the middle but it's epiphone so hey |
|
| Author: | Freeman [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
If you already have a router and table, buy a flush cut bit (18 bucks at Home Depot) http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-1-2-i ... /100660716 Flip your guitar over and put it on the router table, make a little spacer that will hold the edge of the recurve flat. That way the sides will be vertical with respect to the table. This was pretty mickey mouse but it worked   Using a flush cut bit will trim the veneer overhang perfectly flush with the sides. If you want to rebind it, you will need a flush cut bit with a bunch of different size ball bearings - you choose the right one to cut a groove the depth of your binding (that is actually what I'm doing in the pictures, I've already trimmed the top flush to the sides). You'll end up with something like this (the table won't get the area inside the horn, you need to do that with a hand router and the same bit)   You can buy the bit with the whole set of different ball bearings from StewMac - it is fairly expensive for a one time job. You CAN do it with a dremel and special router attachment (again, StewMac sells them) - I've used them to bind mandolins but a dremel is really too small for a guitar. Unfortunately a simple idea like changing the appearance of the top of your guitar can have a lot of repercussions. Along with all the binding and finish work you will also need to shim the neck pocket and reset the neck to compensate for the additional thickness of the top. With luck the pups and bridge will be OK. Good luck, its really a stunning piece of wood. edit to add, looking at that last picture I remember that I had the brilliant idea of wearing latex gloves when I glued the binding on with gel super glue. Well, the first thing I did was glued the gloves to the binding to the top and had one hell of a mess. My wife was helping me - we stripped the gloves off and she didn't miss a beat wicking the CA into the cavity as I taped the binding in place. I came back and scraped the latex mess off after the binding was in place.... |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
To save myself 50$: would paying a luthier to cut the binding slot be something they would do? I'm thinking 20$ is reasonable but anyone else's opinion would be nice. |
|
| Author: | Thedwick [ Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
C'est fini about $200-250$ later. Only burned myself thrice while soldering for the first time Put in some EMG HZ4 on neck and SD SH4-JBs or something like that and they attribute to a solid half of the money spent. 
|
|
| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
Beautiful, beautiful! Good job. I have some lacewood I NEED to use. |
|
| Author: | Freeman [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
I was wondering what happened to this. Came out really nice - congratulations |
|
| Author: | mechanix [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Veneering an Epiphone Les Paul and I am stuck indeed |
Nice job man, really nice. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|