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Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
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Author:  raorn [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Greetings,

I've bought myself a B.C. Rich Stealth One recently. Installed D'Addario EXL145 (12-54) and downtuned to D Drop C. It comes with Tune-O-Matic bridge, that have little springs instead of retention wire:
Image

Now I have two problems. First - I'm unable to adjust intonation on third string, need to move the saddle further away from the neck. I already turned it over, but 12th fret note still 7-10 percent sharper than 12th fret harmonic (photo is a bit outdated - I moved saddle all the way to the right).

Second - there's a buzz that happens on bridge side. Looks like springs are too loose, but I'm unsure what should I do with that. Tried to google this problem, but all solutions are for TOMs with retention wire or special stoppers that got missing. If I push the spring with screwdriver or pick buzz stops for a while, then comes again.

I can live with bad intonation on third string if fixing requires some major work, but please give me advice on how to eliminate bridge buzz.

Thank you in advance.

P.S. This Dimebucker was installed by luthier at guitar store instead of broken B.C. Rich BDSM. Warranty repair, I got lucky! ;-)
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Well, first of all - the bridge is a Chinese copy of an ABR. Their tolerances are pretty sloppy on the cheaper stuff. And I'm going to guess that dropped tunings don't put enough tension on the parts to keep them from buzzing. Suggest you buy a wider brand of bridge to get more room for intonation. That might take care of your buzzing troubles, too.
Author:  dzsmith [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Do the strings touch the bridge body on way to the stopbar?
If so, raise the stopbar and check the buzzing.
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Some drop tunings there is not only enough pressure to prevent the vibrating wave of the string from breaching the break point, or the intended break point on the saddles and may not be enough pressure on the break point either as Chris said.

Some drop tunings require a range of adjustment that will not be available on some instruments. Different string gauges have different intonation points so one fix or work around might be to determine is you need a longer or shorter "speaking length" for the strings and adjust string gauges according so that the adjustment range may suit your requirements.

Buzzing bridges believe it or not can at times be nut problems. Be it the perception of the noise coming from the bridge or not one thing that I would check right off the bat are the nut slots to make sure that they are not too low (string rattle on open notes) or that the string is breaking on the leading edge of the nut slot and that the slots are not cut too shallow which would permit the speaking length of the string to be longer than intended and throw off intonation as well if the vibrating wave broaches the nut slot face too.

This is the kind of thing that needs to be in the hands of someone who knows what to look for and then with a simple elimination process a skilled Luthier should be able to know what's happen in a few minutes.

Also check to make sure the strings after departing the saddles are not in contact with the back edge of the genuine, imitation tune-o-matic as well as Dan said. The string should not be resting on the back edge of the bridge, just the saddles and then clear sailing to the tail piece.

I can't remember and I'm off today and not in the shop if larger gauge strings need more speaking length for proper setting of the intonation or if it's lighter gauge string but it is one of them. If it is the case that 12's need more speaking length then moving to 11's or 10's may help.

By the way many of the tunings that shredders like today like low C are nearly impossible for most instruments to be set up for properly because of the limitations of adjustment travel of the saddles AND unless one has a touch like a butterfly eliminating all rattles and buzzes from the frets can be an issue too if one also likes uber low action because the string are so very slacked...

Many set-ups on many instruments are compromises and have to be that way with the alternative being moving the bridge location which most would not wish to do.

Based on your playing with the springs and that stopping, for a while one buzz I would suspect that you are not he right track for that rattle.

Hope something here is helpful. Happy shredding!
Author:  Sandywood [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
For the intonation problem with 3rd string I would change it from the .020 to a .018 in hopes. Nothing else to try short of relocating the bridge and that's not out of the question but something you may want somebody else to do.

I'd check each saddle to assure that the strings are setting in the slot - that the slot has been sized for those string gauges.

If I thought springs we're noisey I'd remove them and find out. If it was the springs or spring being to loose I'd get another spring to go with it and size it has needed.

Good luck.
Author:  raorn [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Thank you for all your answers. "Cheap Chinese copy" explains a lot.

Yes, larger gauge strings need more length. It's not easy to buy single third string here, but I'll think about using lighter strings, like 11s. And 12s (at least first three strings) in D tuning have equal (or more) tension than 10s in E Standard tuning.

Only first string is touching the bridge, but there's not buzz. I don't have stopbar, but strings-through-body. Not sure if drilling different hole for the first string worth it. May I file the back of the bridge a bit?

Did more investigation today - buzz is coming from springs, where spring touches the saddle. The closer to the bridge I pick the string, the more buzz happens.

So, I get it, better change the bridge if this continue to annoy me. I am thinking about this one. It's 14mm wide (my current bridge is about 13mm wide) and saddles seem (not sure about it) to be a bit higher. There is non-roller version, but it's only 11mm wide and I'm afraid I'll have problems adjusting intonation on 6th, 3th and maybe 5th and 2nd strings.

Thank you again.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Never heard of the brand, but it looks usable - and no springs!
Author:  dzsmith [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Try removing the spring and pull both ends to stretch it out.
This may give more tension in the spring.
Author:  raorn [ Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
I learned about this brand several months ago when I was looking for locking tuners, was mentioned somewhere on guitar forums. English company, they don't have website, only store on ebay. But user support is friendly and their tuners are pretty solid.
Author:  Neville [ Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Get longer springs. Only rattling cos they have space to rattle.
Author:  Durero [ Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
I would try reversing that bridge so that the intonation screws point away from the pickup instead of towards it.

That should enable you to remove all the springs without any danger of the saddle screws slipping out.

The force on the saddles is mostly downwards into the body but also there is a bit of force inwards toward the neck. As it's currently installed that inwards force is pressing against those springs a little, but with the saddle pieces at the end of their travel the springs are likely loose enough to buzz.

With the bridge turned around the component of force on the saddles which pushes towards the neck should be enough to keep the adjustment screws in the frame without springs.
Author:  raorn [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
I've replaced this bridge with Vanson Roller TOM. Buzz is gone, but 3rd string is still a bit (like 7 cent) sharp at 12th fret. May need to switch from EXL145 (12-54) to EXL117 (11-56).

Image
Image

Thank you, all.
Author:  CraigG [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
You might consider going with a wound g string, the smaller diameter of the core will possibly allow you to mome the saddle forward.
Author:  raorn [ Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tune-O-Matic bridge problems (buzz and intonation)
Finally replaced 3rd plain .020 with wound .024 (which turned EXL145 set into EJ21). Perfect fit! Thank you all for comments and advices.
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