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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | active versus passive pick ups |
Hi. Just wanted to get any input on the subject. I'd like opinions from experienced players, or builders who have input from experienced players. I've always liked passive, because they give more color to the tone. I recently built an 8 string lap steel, solid d. fir body, maple square neck, blah blah blah, and put in an EMG active pick up. I really like it, because a)- very even output from string to string, b)- super quiet, and doesn't require string grounding, c)- good pick up for pedals. d)- $100 gets you the pots, jack, battery connector, just plug it all together. Not saying I'm going all active, as I still like the passive for their different colors. Anything out there? Alan |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
String balance can be achieved visa pole adjustments. The only guys who seem to really want and need them are pedal junkies with a bunch of gain staging. Actives help eliminate the need for a noise gate and the swells that come with it in nuanced passages. My personal thoughts are if you need a pre amp then buy one really good pre amp and run all your guitars through it when you play rather than one cheap pre on every instrument. Not to mention batteries.... and the fact that 8.5V is the lower limit for trouble free performance with uncompromised tone qualities.... |
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| Author: | DavidSchwab [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
Passive pickups don’t give more color, aren’t more organic, or any of the other things you read. They just don’t have as much high frequency response. An active EMG pickup is a regular passive pickup, very similar in construction to their passive HZ pickups, with a built in buffer. The two coils are wired in parallel (kind of) to the preamp. It’s wired as a “differential” amplifier. That means one coil goes to the + and the other to the - (non inverting and inverting) inputs on an operational amplifier IC. This makes any noise picked up by the coils to cancel out. So they are very quiet pickups. This is why you don’t have to ground your strings. They are also shielded. They sound different because of two things; the two coils are not connected in series. So you are hearing what’s basically two single coils next to each other. Similar to wiring a standard humbucker in parallel. And the buffer amp cleans up the highs so they are a bit brighter. A hot passive pickup like a JB has higher inductance so it has less treble frequencies and more midrange. The nice thing about EMGs is the clean tones are very sparkly and clean. And if you like brighter guitar tones they have a nice top end bite. And they are great in the studio because they don’t pickup much noise. If you like darker tones, either stick with passive pickups, or get an EQ pedal and set it to the sound you like. I had EMGs in a Kramer Strat and a set of humbuckers in my old Les Paul. I liked them just fine, but these days I’m using passive pickups I made myself. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | DavidSchwab [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
B. Howard wrote: . Not to mention batteries.... and the fact that 8.5V is the lower limit for trouble free performance with uncompromised tone qualities.... Not quite the same thing. The preamp in an EMG isn’t any cheaper than any stomp box preamp. They all use the same parts. And because it’s a differential preamp it cancels noise right at the pickup. An out board preamp can’t do that. Also you can run EMGs on 18volts. I think they sound better at 9 volts for guitar and 18 volts for bass. And the battery lasts at least 6 months with daily use. So just change the battery when you change your strings. The original MusicMan Stingray bass uses the same low power op amp as the original series EMGs (not the X series). The power drain is so low that they didn’t even include a switching jack to disconnect the battery! It was on 24 hours a day. They figured it would last a year. I think that was a bit optimistic. They eventually included a switching jack. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
Thank you both for answering. I've been a tone monkey for a long time, and kind of been biased against the actives. Some of the older pups are sometimes hard to get the string balance, but it's really not a big deal once you start playing. I have an old Nat 8 string, and a Supro 8 string as well, both hard to balance, but, I gotta say that especially the Supro has a way sick sound ( I call it color). You have to be careful with that one, cuz it be so dynamic, meaning to me, touch sensitive. Seems passive has more hair, better for blues. Kind of nice to play through the active. Easier and cleaner, and better for the way I record (at home, garage band), and a single ended little Champ type circuit. Always like to read what you say, Brian, and thanks for the tech stuff, David, I understood most of it. David, I would love it if you put together a thread with your thought on scatter wound, or not, and resistance characteristics. If not, cool. Alan |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
DavidSchwab wrote: B. Howard wrote: . Not to mention batteries.... and the fact that 8.5V is the lower limit for trouble free performance with uncompromised tone qualities.... Not quite the same thing. The preamp in an EMG isn’t any cheaper than any stomp box preamp. They all use the same parts. Wasn't talking stomp box preamps... though there are a few decent ones. I said a good preamp so I'm thinking Mesa or Marshal, rack mounted. I mean if your into active P-ups you fit a certain "player profile" for the most part. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
I have and use a Baggs DI box to use with my old LB-6 saddle pup, and like it. Not as sophisticated as a rack mount, but needed for the LB-6. Sometimes I use that for a mag pup set up. It's okay, but with some pups it adds more noise. It has also boosted my vol at gigs a few times when the Champ amp I was playing through wasn't loud enough because somebody in the band got too loud. Maybe why my rt ear is running at half volume? THANKS A-HOLE!!!!! Anyway, EMG SA came yesterday, and will be checked out, especially for noise. Alan |
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| Author: | DavidSchwab [ Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | active versus passive pick ups |
B. Howard wrote: DavidSchwab wrote: B. Howard wrote: I mean if your into active P-ups you fit a certain "player profile" for the most part. Not really. I’m guessing you mean metal players? Lee Sklar’s main bass has two EMG P pickups. He’s played on all types of recordings. Prince used EMGs in his guitars. Gilmour used them too. They are just pickups. What music you make with them is up to you. As far as power, a guitar pickup doesn’t put out very much current. You certainly don’t need more than 18volts to be powering the preamp. Back when I used EMGs I liked 9 volts better for the guitar pickups and 18 v for bass. The lower voltage for guitar gave them a more compressed squish like you get on a tube amp with a tube rectifier. And look how many people play through 9 volt TubeScreamers and the like. The preamp in EMGs provides no gain. Just buffering. It’s like Rick Turner says: “active schmative.... all electric guitars are active. Just depends on where the first gain stage is” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
Best clean tone thru my tube amp came from an EMG-81. I was surprised. Of course, tone is subjective. Tried an Alumitone deathbucker, no noise, but dull with a flat tone. I reckon it would be good with a pedal. I’m nearly deaf, so I may be a poor judge. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
Hi!!!!! Anyway, got the EMG S/A pup the other day, and got the installation done last night, and put it to the test. Funny thing happened. After struggling to fit all the parts from my back access hole, to the tail output jack, and struggling to get the pots in the holes I drilled, soldering needed extension wires, blah blah, tried it out and noticed the vol and tone didn't work right. Pretty sure I hooked the wires up wrong, because they came undone whilst fighting it all. So, interesting the way it sounds as is. Both pots sort of control vol and tone, sort of, but not correctly. Vol doesn't go down all the way, and tone sort of affects vol. Gonna leave it that way for a while, because I always play through a vol pedal anyway. So, tone analysis is, absolutely no "hair", but an almost acoustic tone to it. It's a thinline git. Unfair critique because of the wrong wiring. I think I'll see if EMG will sell me the pots and stuff, so I can do an "outboard" sound test on it. Don't want to mess with it for now. Anyway, let's try to get this elec forum back to life, okay? I can post pics if anybody cares. Merry merry! Alan |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: active versus passive pick ups |
Well, tone monkey findings. I finally got the pots wired right. Had to cut a hole in the back of the guitar to access the pot connections. Anyway, my report is, on this guitar, which is constructed as an acoustic, thin line, acoustic pin bridge, etc., sounds amazing, with the EMG's. Not what I was after, but I really like the tone. Kind of a cross between an electric and an acoustic. Nice playing through 2 amps, with the Baggs into one, and the EMG into the other, using a volume pedal on the EMG for swells. Some definitely interesting tonal possibilities there! Thanks for the comments all. Alan |
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