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Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10132&t=35013	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Florentin [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
This will be my first build. I am building a Classical. I received the following from Bob, over at RC Tonewoods: - Sitka Top - Curly White Oak Back & Sides - Oak Neck - Birdseye Maple Fretboard - Black Walnut Head Veneer - Black Walnut Bindings - Basswood Reverse Kerf - Three Pieces of Sitka for Braces (I will provide photos of the wood shortly) I am very inexperienced and very excited at the same time. My expectation is quite realistic - if the guitar does not fall apart when I am done, if I still have all my fingers, and if I can play an E minor chord on it without a buzz, I will be quite satisfied. As far as the OLF challenge goes, I am doing this with only one purpose in mind: to learn. Comments and suggestions are more than welcome as I report my progress in here. I plan to practice each step on throw-away wood two or three times, whenever I can, before I try it on this wood. Hopefully this way I can avoid many mistakes. BOB, THANK YOU FOR YOUR GENEROUS OFFER AND FOR FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH IT. I have no experience, but this wood looks so beautiful! My wife, who two weeks ago told me to "go away from the kitchen countertop with that dirty piece of wood", told me tonight that I can work on the countertop anytime, as long as I use "wood like that" :O) Thank you Bob for your generosity! Also, thank you for packing the wood so well. I used to have an online retail business, and I would ship 50-75 packages a week. I know what it means to take the time to pack something right. The wood is wonderful, and I am very excited to start. Thank You!

Author:	Florentin [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Here is the wood:

Author:	nyazzip [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
hey i just wanted to let you know, Menards in chicagoland carry mahogany strips that are just the perfect size for making a laminate classical neck. it is very cheap too! (like $6 for a long strip that will make 2 necks). i'm using it right now for my 1st classical neck... just wanted to let you know, in case you screw up! he heh

Author:	Florentin [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Thanks . I already got some pieces to practice on. I have a piece of cheap pine , and a long piece of Select pine with very straight grain. I am practicing the angle cut with my new Japanese saw, and some planing /shaping with various tools. I will also get the wood you were mentioning, to practice on. Thanks.

Author:	John A [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
hey I was thinking of you today and was hoping you are proceeding with building - good to see you are getting a good start - practice sharpening your block plane - so if your scarf joint cut is bad - then you can plane it right to shape. don't be afraid to ask questions. we all started as beginners - I still consider myself one as well, but I can definitely see my skills improve with every piece I make, cut, or carve.

Author:	truckjohn [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
I have built a guitar with an Oak neck... While it is plenty strong.. It would not be my choice for a neck on a Classical... My own experience with it is that it is quite a bit harder to carve than many other woods commonly used on Necks.... It's also quite a bit heavier than many woods you would normally see on Classical guitars... Last - it's very very porous and it's quite a bit of work to fill in all those pores so your neck doesn't feel ribbed... Don't get me wrong - it will work just fine... It's just that after using it myself - I would steer you towards soft maple or poplar or walnut or cherry.... Thanks

Author:	WudWerkr [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Beautifull wood . Bob was very generous . Looking forward to your efforts at building !

Author:	Tony_in_NYC [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Extremely nice of Bob to get you going! Kudos Bob! Keep the pics coming on this build!

Author:	Florentin [ Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Not easy to work on this project, because I am somewhat afraid I'll do something wrong and mess up the wood. Today I did get some work done on the neck. Here is my neck blank (oak)... Before cutting to size... Cutting on the diagonal line ... Leveling/planing the two pieces... Here they go before glueing... And here they are being glued together... Of course, I forgot to buy wax paper, so I improvised with a plastic bag, so I don't get glue on the countertop. The hardest part was cutting by hand on the diagonal line, and also the glueing... It was hard to get the two pieces to stay flush while clamping them down. I think it worked out pretty well in the end.

Author:	Florentin [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
The neck came out pretty nice. After cleaning it up, it looked great. Moving on to the veneer. First mistake... I forgot to plane down the face of the headstock to size, before glueing the veneer on. I skipped this step by accident, and remembered about 10 minutes after glueing the veneer on. I was afraid I had ruined the veneer, but I was actually able to pry it off by sliding a flat screwdriver in between the veneer and the headstock. The veneer came off, but with a crack across. I think I will still be able to use it though. I cleaned both pieces real nice, and now back to the previous step. Phew...

Author:	nyazzip [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
are you using specific plans/building a solera/etcetera? thats too bad about your veneer. with the wood i used, it just so happened that everything was perfect dimensions, so i didn't have to plane the headstock face, at all. very happy about that because both me and my block plane are terrible at planing good luck drilling your headstock holes!

Author:	Florentin [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Cleaned up the neck... And marked a guiding line for plaining down to size... Glad I didn't ruin anything, yet

Author:	nyazzip [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
if you have chisels or gouges it would probably be easier to blast some of that material out of there using them. that looks like a lot of oak to remove with a hand plane, i do not envy you on this step...! also it would have probably been easier to thickness the headstock face before the scarf was glued(but after it was cut)... i'm already trying to think of ways to make my next headstock go a little easier

Author:	Florentin [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
nyazzip wrote: are you using specific plans/building a solera/etcetera? I am using the Sloane book for the neck. nyazzip wrote: thats too bad about your veneer. with the wood i used, it just so happened that everything was perfect dimensions, so i didn't have to plane the headstock face, at all. I think I can still use the veneer. I saved it just in time. I almost went to bed and left it to dry... nyazzip wrote: good luck drilling your headstock holes! I think I'll just close my eyes when I do that Not much difference if I kept them open...

Author:	Florentin [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
nyazzip wrote: if you have chisels or gouges it would probably be easier to blast some of that material out of there using them. that looks like a lot of oak to remove with a hand plane, i do not envy you on this step...! I think I'll take most of it off with a rasp. And I do have a brand new chisel as well. Gotta go to the garage now, so I don't wake up the kids

Author:	Florentin [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
It took me a while, but I did bring this down to size. I used a chisel and a rasp. It was quite difficult to shape this wood. Probably because I've never used these tools before. Here is the neck, down to size... Applying glue (don't have a mini-roll, so I am going to use the mighty index finger)... Clamped down until tomorrow...

Author:	nyazzip [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Quote: It was quite difficult to shape this wood. oak. it's a mutha. ...you better hide that pic of glue drops on the countertop from wifey !

Author:	Florentin [ Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Veneer glued on... Cut extra over-hanging veneer... Cleaned it up a bit... Here's our dog begging for a walk... Took at least a couple of hours to draw the headstock and transfer to the wood... The sloane book gives no dimensions other than that of the holes being drilled, and a couple other small details. I had to figure out all other distances on my own. I also chose to go with a simple design for the top of the headstock. I think it looks alright for now. Very afraid to cut! Will sleep on it and try later.

Author:	truckjohn [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Looks like it is going quite well so far.... You might want to cut your slots in the headstock - sometimes it's easier while the sides are still square... and you can clamp it in the vise.... Also - it can help if you trace out your headstock design on the bottom of the headstock - It's usually easier to clamp it face down than face up (Because of the neck shaft...) Especially so if you are going to use a scroll saw or band saw... If you are going to cut it out by hand - you may not need to do that. Thanks

Author:	Alexandru Marian [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
At this point you need to taper the headstock sides (relieve some material from the neck to make room for the block plane) then drill the tuner holes and only then rout the string slots. Why did you do the scarf like that?

Author:	Florentin [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Thanks for the suggestions John and Alexandru. Alexandru, I think I see what you are referring to. The joint is supposed to be on the headstock, passed the angle, right? I am away from the book now - I'll have to go and double check. I am pretty sure I followed directions pretty accurately. But I could be wrong. Could it be a problem if the scarf joint is on the actual neck? Could the strings pull this out of whack? Thanks

Author:	Alexandru Marian [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
I think i saw guitars made like this before, maybe electric?! but never a classical. Most of them have the scarf on the headstock and a few are made with a V joint or solid. If you glued it well it will probably hold fine but aesthetically it's not great.

Author:	Florentin [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
I see what you mean. I've also seen some old acoustics with the scarf joint on the neck, now that I think about it. I think so anyways. I thought I'd be able to hide the joint line somehow. I was sure I followed directions accurately. Now I see I put the joint on the wrong side of the nut. What now? Do I start the neck over? Do I keep going with this? What do people think? Thanks for the help!

Author:	nyazzip [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
i don't see why it would be a problem; the neck is just a bit longer now so you will have to cut more off the heel. i would definitely proceed with the headstock operations, because there is an excellent chance of failure there, and if nothing else it will become valuable exercise....believe me i know!

Author:	Florentin [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
My only concern is that the strings don't pull this neck out of whack. As far as aesthetics, I do agree that it looks unusual with that diagonal line across. I was wondering the same thing as I saw it first out of the clamps. I guess with the fingerboard on top, the top line would disappear. At least that line won't be standing out so much. The other lines I can try to hide somehow, or at least to fill them in and then sand them smooth. I think I'll have to fill in this neck anyways, since the oak is quite porous. I will try to keep going as it is and see what happens. Besides the ugly line across, I like this neck very much. Hard to describe the feeling of building this guitar with my own hands Thank you so much for all the help so far!

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