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Truss Rod Concern
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=41556		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jerry2013 [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Truss Rod Concern
Hello there Folks, and how are we this fine day? bliss
I joined your forum to post a dual action truss rod concern. I am a parts guitar amateur( very) assembler, not a luthier by any stretch.
I have a rather expensive Maple /Maple electric guitar neck, made by one of the parts specialists, and you can probably guess which one.

Anyhow, I made the bad choice of buying this neck new in box, but sold second hand by owner, not the factory. SO I socked it away, and actually even had the neck Nitro finished before I mounted it. I think I had tried the truss rod, so maybe it fell into negligent and even malicious hand ( I also had a fret level done on the cheap by some monkey who does a Micro-polish on Fleabay for 85.00. Should have known better, but anyway, I'm pretty sure the neck was good and that I had tried the truss rod whenever I first bought the neck).

Be that as it may, I found out when I put the guitar I am assembling together the other night, that the truss rod, which has a adjustment in the heel and also on the side of the neck heel, being double action, will crank tight and get forward bow, but will not get hardly any relief. I have tried to adjust it in every way imaginable. gaah

SO.. I guess my question, and thank you for reading my long diatribe, is that with the very little relief , miniscule actually , that I was able to dial in, will the neck be stable over the long run? It seems to be holding the small relief. One thing is that is that the neck has a fairly flat radius at 17, and jumbo 6100 Dunlop frets, so that does seem to make a difference, as besides the botched fret level job the joker did that won't allow the action to be as low as I'd like ( and I like it plenty low), it seems to play well.

Thanks again for taking the time to address my concerns, and I appreciate it. [:Y:]
Author:  Stevelkneivel [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rod Concern
Just let it settle in if it's fresh. Dual action rods are really to correct faults and wet boards more than anything. If you have small relief and like the action low, you're all set. It's too easy to get analysis paralysis and worry about how it's going to "hold up". I've got guitars that were budget in the 40's and they're still "holding up". If it's playing fine, just enjoy making some music for a while and cross the bridges if you come to them.
Author:  Stevelkneivel [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rod Concern
I just noticed in your post that the action isn't as low as you like, how low do you like it and where is it at the 12th fret? 2mm on the bass to 1.5 on the treble under the string is bouncy and comfy on a strat, but with a 17 you could get a bit lower, but physics kicks in eventually. If you're a legato player, 1.5 to 1 can work ok. Have a go at levelling the frets yourself, it's not rocket surgery. You may surprise yourself.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rod Concern
I'm not familiar with the neck to which you're refering, but what you're describing doesn't sound like a double action rod to me.

I think you have a compression truss rod adjustment at the heel, and a neck angle adjustment inside the neck pocket. You said maple/maple, so I'm assuming it's a Fender style bolt on. If that is correct, then:

The relief, or curvature of the neck, is adjusted with the screw at the heel. To check the relief, fret a string at the 1st and 14th frets, and check the clearance at the 7th fret. It should be less than 0.003" for really low action, but somewhere between 0.001" and 0.005". If it's more than that, the rod needs to be tightened. Since you're aware of a problem, I'd loosen the strings, and then loosen the rod to see if the threads are working. If everything is OK, flex a little backbow into the neck using a clamp and a couple of blocks, of even over your knee, while you tighten the rod. Tune it back up to pitch, and check the relief again. If it's still too much, flex the neck and tighten the rod a little more. If the rod is working properly, you should be able to get the neck straight enough.
The other screw, in the neck pocket, adjusts the neck angle relative to the body. That, along with the saddle height adjustments, is what you use to set the action height, AFTER you get the relief close enough.
Author:  jerry2013 [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rod Concern
Rodger Knox wrote:
I'm not familiar with the neck to which you're refering, but what you're describing doesn't sound like a double action rod to me.

I think you have a compression truss rod adjustment at the heel, and a neck angle adjustment inside the neck pocket. You said maple/maple, so I'm assuming it's a Fender style bolt on. If that is correct, then:

The relief, or curvature of the neck, is adjusted with the screw at the heel. To check the relief, fret a string at the 1st and 14th frets, and check the clearance at the 7th fret. It should be less than 0.003" for really low action, but somewhere between 0.001" and 0.005". If it's more than that, the rod needs to be tightened. Since you're aware of a problem, I'd loosen the strings, and then loosen the rod to see if the threads are working. If everything is OK, flex a little backbow into the neck using a clamp and a couple of blocks, of even over your knee, while you tighten the rod. Tune it back up to pitch, and check the relief again. If it's still too much, flex the neck and tighten the rod a little more. If the rod is working properly, you should be able to get the neck straight enough.
The other screw, in the neck pocket, adjusts the neck angle relative to the body. That, along with the saddle height adjustments, is what you use to set the action height, AFTER you get the relief close enough.



Thanks Rodge, but I think you misunderstood. The neck is too straight, its nearly dead flat. I need a tad more relief, which it won't dial in, because there is something wrong with it.

Its a Warmoth Strat neck, and no, there is not an angle adjustment in the neck pocket, and it is a Warmoth double action truss rod with two adjustable screws; one on the side of the heel for minor adjustments, and one at the end of the neck heel for the major adjustments. I may have misstated or made that unclear in the original post. Also, I'm not sure "forward bow", as I stated, is the proper term for what tends to happen when you tighten the truss rod.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rod Concern
OK, I checked out the neck here: http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/Str ... thPro.aspx
(click on the side adjust label for explaination and adjustment instructions)

It is a single action rod, but with two methods of adjustment. You should set the side adjustment to the initial setting and loosen the other all the way. String tension SHOULD pull some relief into the neck with no help from the truss rod, this rod is only single action, and only removes relief. It's possible, especially with a maple/maple neck, that it's too stiff for the strings to pull enough relief into the neck. If that's the case, the truss rod won't help. Some people have used various heating and clamping techniques to increase the curvature, mostly with limited sucess.
Author:  nyazzip [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rod Concern
you might experiment with a "reverse shim" in the neck pocket to achieve better action, also
Author:  Cush [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rod Concern
With only a single action truss rod, the easiest way to get more neck relief is to use the truss rod to induce some backbow then relevel and crown the frets. When you add string tension and release the truss rod you should have the relief you need.
Author:  B. Howard [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rod Concern
Cush wrote:
With only a single action truss rod, the easiest way to get more neck relief is to use the truss rod to induce some backbow then relevel and crown the frets. When you add string tension and release the truss rod you should have the relief you need.



Yep, it's that or use heavier gauge strings.
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