Gonna be an interesting thread
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| Discusion resoration of old guitars please http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=43401 |
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| Author: | PT66 [ Thu May 08, 2014 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
I question the direction that the repair of older guitars is headed. I have been told not to replace very worn, cracked and pitted fingerboards because it will detract from the value of the guitar. Yet violin repair people routinely replace fingerboards when they have been plained down too thin. No one builds them up with epoxy. I have been told to save old Kluson tuners with worn gears and rotten buttons. Yet violins periodically get there pegs replaced (even the finest violins do not have original pegs). If we had a vintage car would we recap the tires just to keep them original? When the fabric seats are worn through do we try to weave in new threads? We replace the frets when they are worn, why not the “ebonized maple” board on an old National? What are we trying to preserve? |
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| Author: | Nick Royle [ Thu May 08, 2014 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
Gonna be an interesting thread
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Thu May 08, 2014 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
Thought this thread was already started 
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| Author: | Frank Ford [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
PT66 wrote: I question the direction that the repair of older guitars is headed. . . What are we trying to preserve? Often enough, it's the guitar owner's bank account we're trying to preserve. The main reason I don't replace ebonized boards is money, money, money. Just a few thoughts: So many of the instruments I work on have synthetic components that are downright unstable over time (celluloid binding, nitrocellulose lacquer, plastic parts) that it's a bit of a balancing act to try to guess when they will deteriorate to the point of needing replacement. A large proportion of Gretsch, D'Angelico, Guild, and Epiphone guitars from the late 1940s & 1950s have wholesale decomposition of their body bindings, so replacement is the only option. Many Washburn, Gibson and other celluloid bound guitars from 100 years ago are doing just fine now, so we don't have to do anything about their binding - yet. Taking violins apart for restoration is routine compared to guitars, which suffer mightily just from having the body opened up. WdWerkr wrote: Thought this thread was already started Indeed it was, about 50 years ago. It's a long discussion, and one that's just starting to evolve, so there won't be any solid answers anytime soon. Clearly this is an ongoing topic that's both long past and current, occurring all around our community including all the luthier forums in which I participate. |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
WdWerkr wrote: Thought this thread was already started Indeed it was, about 50 years ago. It's a long discussion, and one that's just starting to evolve, so there won't be any solid answers anytime soon.[/quote] No , I mean this conversation is on 3 separate threads right now here
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| Author: | Nick Royle [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
Yeah, I made my post here and then wondered why it wasn't visible on the one that actually has the discussion! For a second I thought it had been deleted for being totally useless to anyone! 
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| Author: | michael jennings [ Sun May 18, 2014 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
I've had great results using Frank Ford's technique of incising the the depressions with a razor, pulling up a few "splinters" , still attached, and filling with rosewood [or ebony] sanding dust and CA. Most of the one's I've done have been all but invisible repairs [especially on rosewood where there is already some color variation. Much less expensive for the customer.. nice surface after some light sanding. And a hell of a lot less work for me. Of course a re-fret goes with out saying. Check Frets.com fo Franks tech. Mike |
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| Author: | Lonnie J Barber [ Fri May 23, 2014 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
Interesting thread. The restorations that I've done have been complete fire hazards to start with. A case in point is a Kay Archtop from the forties. No binding,the body was open and had missing Kerfing. Also it had no neck as well   As you can see it was a total wreck to start. So the idea of keeping fretboards was totally moot.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Fri May 23, 2014 11:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
Historic preservation of anything (not just instruments) can be a heated topic. The problem is that it's hard to build a consensus about what is truly an important historic icon and what is merely old. Sure, we all know our own thoughts about these things, but try to get a room full of people with strong opinions to come to an agreement... |
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| Author: | Lonnie J Barber [ Sun May 25, 2014 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
I agree. I grew up playing an old Kay Archtop. The action was at least 3/4 of an inch high. The old black diamond strings I had access to would eat your fingers alive. This was back in the fifties. A friend of mine who rebuilds my pickups for me summed it up pretty well. Anybody who gives an old guitar another chance at live is aces in my book. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue May 27, 2014 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
The Kay restoration would look a little better with a different pickguard and a neck set on straight. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
Nick Royle wrote: Yeah, I made my post here and then wondered why it wasn't visible on the one that actually has the discussion! For a second I thought it had been deleted for being totally useless to anyone! There's still time, give it a chance....  One of the guiding philosophies for some in the repair biz is "what's appropriate for the instrument..." Or, more specifically the rules if there really are any... may change and often do depending on exactly what instrument we are considering. As Frank said finances play a great role too. So perhaps we should add "what's appropriate for the current steward's bank account." If you take it on a case by case basis some of this becomes more clear. For example some instruments are clearly "players" and this may also be the route that the current steward (CS) wants to take as well. In this case functionality may override historical accuracy again if the thing is not all that valuable, collectable, historic, or flat out old as dirt. Crumbling tuner buttons can be replaced, tuners serviced and even reconditioned on a micro-lathe. The idea is preserving as much of the originality as possible but not at the expense of functionality. OTOH we may be dealing with something valuable, rare, historic, etc. and then the rules may change and the rules that change may not really care what the CS wants to do, some shops won't do anything to any instrument if it's a bad idea for one reason of another. Others... not so much. One of our clients has a 37 OOO-28 and this particular instrument has spent it's life being played by more famous people than I could even list because it belongs to a musical venue that brings in top acts every week. It's the stage guitar.... a pre-war Martin. In it's life though it's been worked on by countless folks some of which are not even alive anymore. Tuners have been changed, refret, neck reset, bridge reglues, pick guard replacement, cracks repaired, etc. Always with the idea of preserving it's functionality but also not doing anything to it that would greatly reduce it's value. Not an easy line to walk by any means..... So this is an example of a historic and valuable piece that IS a player as well and the CS intends to keep it a player as well. That's why there are no rules in my view because not only does the debate over time morph as Frank says we also have to deal with the wishes and rights... of the CS and of course too "what's appropriate for the instrument." Recently I was amazed at an Ov*tion electric that I thought was just another Ov*tion but it comes to pass that it's valuable, go figure, and coveted by a certain following (it takes all types.... ). I wanted to replace broken tuners and another Luthier looked at me like I just swore in church...If you ever get a chance go to guitar shows that are largely swap meets where basement collectors purchase tables to sell their stuff check it out. I thought I knew a lot about this stuff, not so, pups for $1,200 each that were considered junk when I was a kid, Silvertone electrics with interesting knobs for $1,000.... There is nothing that makes me feel old like seeing some of this stuff that was truly considered junk when I was a kid to be coveted, valuable, collectable these days.... What a strange world this is... |
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| Author: | Nick Royle [ Tue May 27, 2014 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
Hesh wrote: Nick Royle wrote: For a second I thought my post had been deleted for being totally useless to anyone! There's still time, give it a chance.... It would be a good thing if a lot of my more useless posts were deleted, I'm sure! I'm almost embarrassed to have accrued so many posts in my short time here.... But I figure the more people get involved the better! |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Thu May 29, 2014 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Discusion resoration of old guitars please |
Nick Royle wrote: Hesh wrote: Nick Royle wrote: For a second I thought my post had been deleted for being totally useless to anyone! There's still time, give it a chance.... It would be a good thing if a lot of my more useless posts were deleted, I'm sure! I'm almost embarrassed to have accrued so many posts in my short time here.... But I figure the more people get involved the better! Don't be so hard on yourself, Nick. I'm ahead of you almost 2-1!  Alex |
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