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| Correct neck angle? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=53487 |
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| Author: | Rod D [ Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Correct neck angle? |
Frank Ford suggests a long straight edge across the frets to the bridge of an acoustic should have that straight just sitting on top of a proper thickness bridge. I am working on a 2000 314ce Taylor with the NT neck and I have the Taylor shim kit but I am not a Taylor tech. Can Frank's method be applied here for correct neck angle? Thanks! |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Correct neck angle? |
Sort of. For any neck angle adjustment, you need to determine the change in saddle height required to correct the angle, and from there the amount to add or subtract from the end of the heel. I prefer to do that by measuring string height under tension, but the approximate method with a straight edge without tension can get you close, The trick with the Taylor shims is to use this info together with the numbers embossed on the existing shims to calculate the new shim numbers. I haven’t seen that info published anywhere — I’m sure Taylor techs have access to a method. I reverse engineered using an Excel spreadsheet that tells me what the new shims should be, but it’s not Taylor-approved. It does allow me however to accomplish the desired new string height with a single shim swap. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Smylight [ Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Correct neck angle? |
Well, yes. But how do you calculate what shims you need to move the neck where you want it? It's still a mystery to me for those necks. What's sure is that you have to change both shims in sync. For lack of the proper formula, I always end up sending my measured specs to the Taylor support team, who calculate what I need for me and even send the shims needed. I suggest you get in touch with them. And maybe you’ll be able to get the formula they use...  then you can send it to me.
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| Author: | Smylight [ Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Correct neck angle? |
Hey Tim... I'd love to see this spreadsheet.
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| Author: | Freeman [ Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Correct neck angle? |
The additional problem is not only does the shims set the neck angle they also set the action. I too am not a Taylor tech and don't have access to either the shims or the method of calculating - the last NT guitar that came to my workbench was sent off to an authorized tech. Why screw up a pretty good system by doing something I'm not really qualified to do. (I'll add that I set necks all the time and do lots of setups and probably could here too, but I choose not to) |
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| Author: | Rod D [ Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Correct neck angle? |
I guess Taylor has loosened up on who they send their shims to cuz I just bought a kit for $50 that is 2 sets of 50 shims - 50 front and 50 fret-board shims and the tools to remove the bolts, and new labels to replace the one you must remove to get at the bolts. The originals shims in this guitar were marked .008" fretboard and .014 on the front. I have already done the trial and error method always keeping the pattern of a .006" difference between the two; i.e. I replaced the .014 front with a .006 and the top (fretboard) .008 with a .000 and this is getting me to where the guitar wants to be if a totally flat fretboard with straightedge laying down the center to the bridge is the proper way to measure Taylor neck angle for us non-cert Taylor techs. Love that spreadsheet idea tho. |
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| Author: | DanKirkland [ Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Correct neck angle? |
I'll be honest I've been a Taylor cert'd guy for years now. I've rarely ever measured anything when changing neck angle with the shims. When they did the training with me they taught me to sight down the neck and if the top of the fretboard is in line with the top of the bridge with a flat fretboard then it's good. Nowadays I shoot for a little over the top of the bridge (think 2/64 over) since the necks do compress a bit under tension. A straight edge is fine, but keep in mind that sometimes you do get necks that just will not measure out ideally according to Taylor specs. In that case the measurement difference between the two shims is irrelevant and you just have to use your better judgement. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Correct neck angle? |
Smylight wrote: Hey Tim... I'd love to see this spreadsheet. I think my spreadsheet would likely confuse without cleaning it up considerably. Maybe next time I have a Taylor in the shop (they always arrive in threes). Like any reset, you need to work out how much the heel cap position should change. That requires measuring the distance from body joint to saddle, the distance from heel cap to bottom of finger board, and desired change in string height at the 12th times 2 (which may need to account also for an additional increase in saddle height). This calculation should be familiar to anyone accustomed to neck resets. The measurements are critical and should, in my opinion, always be made under tension and with appropriate neck relief. The desired change in the heel cap position is the thickness difference between shims at the heel cap end. Once you’ve determined the appropriate heel shim, the extension shim index number is a difference of 6, as noted by others. That approach has generally worked well, but I have had a couple where the range of shims provided in the Taylor kit wasn’t sufficient and required modification of a shim to achieve the required angle change. Dan Kirkland provided some info, but didn’t reveal the actual method or equation Taylor recommends to make the shim swap. That’s the part that would be useful, but he may not be able to reveal proprietary information. When I bought my shim kit 3 or 4 years ago, I merely provided information demonstrating that I was a legitimate guitar building and repair business. I was offered an opportunity to be certified by Taylor, but I declined. I think they need someone in my area, but warranty service for other builders is not in my business plan. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | DanKirkland [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Correct neck angle? |
Tim Mullin wrote: Dan Kirkland provided some info, but didn’t reveal the actual method or equation Taylor recommends to make the shim swap. That’s the part that would be useful, but he may not be able to reveal proprietary information. [/quote]The method Rob (the Taylor repair guy at the time) taught me is to sight down the neck like I had described. A straight edge is fine too and they never discouraged me from doing it that way. Here's an equation that I've found works for these. Underset neck: Remove the neck and see what the shims currently are. Add pitch to the neck in the amount of 3 thou per shim. Keep the shims at least 4 thou apart (this varies wildly guitar to guitar, some need them to be 2 apart and others as high as 8) Overset neck: Same method as underset, but reduce the pitch by 3 thou depending on how severe. Same number of thou per shim apart but be willing to vary it. There's really not a way to determine the exact shim number just by measuring because each one of these necks compresses a little different from the next (and it also depends on player preference). Some examples from the other day. A recent 514ce. Neck was underset. Shims in the neck were 8 on the neck and -2 on the extension. I changed the neck to a 12 and the extension to a +2 instead of the negative 2. Reattach and done, no more underset. A semi recent one. A 416ce. Neck was VERY underset. Shims were 2 on the neck and -4 on the extension. Ended up with a 10 on the neck and a 0 on the extension. Fingerboard was flat afterwards. Like I said, there are some rules but because guitars even made by CNC vary so much there's no absolutes with the shim system. |
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| Author: | Lou Thier [ Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Correct neck angle? |
Smylight wrote: Hey Tim... I'd love to see this spreadsheet. ME TOO!! |
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