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Cedar top varnish touch-up
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=56900		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LuisLujan [ Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Cedar top varnish touch-up
Hi:
This is a varnish touch-up on the cedar top of a Spanish guitar. Clear varnish not tinted, some kind of poly or similar, not nitro or shellac. the customer brought it in because it had fingernail marks, it did not have a pickguard. (photo 1)
The standard solution would be to fill with varnish, level and polish.
I did several tests, If I use shellac, nitro, water base or superglue on the touch-up, this darken the wood (photo 2, test on the same top).
The question is, has anyone successfully repaired something like this?

Thanks a lot
Author:  Cal Maier [ Mon Nov 25, 2024 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar top varnish retouching
That looks like the super glue. I’m guessing you tried that first. It will darken and change the colour of most soft woods.
It will probably be something you will have to live with. Welcome to the world of finish repair. I don’t have a remedy other than a top refinish, which I wouldn’t advise.
Author:  LuisLujan [ Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar top varnish retouching
Cal Maier wrote:
That looks like the super glue. I’m guessing you tried that first. It will darken and change the colour of most soft woods.
It will probably be something you will have to live with. Welcome to the world of finish repair. I don’t have a remedy other than a top refinish, which I wouldn’t advise.



Cal, the picture is nitro, but it happen with shellac and super glue too. Now i am trying water base hot glue (fish glue) under and nitro on top. This method does not dark wood, but don't hide the varnish white mark.
"It will probably be something you will have to live with". off course!! idunno I deal whit it a lot of times, resignedly, but now I loking for a new solution and figthing gaah .
Could be somebody has the tip [headinwall]
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar top varnish retouching
Cal's right the only remedy that will remove that blemish for sure is to refinish the top and Cal is also right you don't want to go there.

You may be able to improve the look a bit filling, etc. but it will still be very visible. If completely gone is the goal it's refinish time.
Author:  Kbore [ Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar top varnish retouching
I'm sorry I don't know how to refinish a poly scratch.... that's a very good question.

In regard to the dark divot, an interesting technique where you cut out a dish shape around the defect, with a gouge, and patch it, with a matching dish, cut from a grain-matching piece of cedar. http://frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Tec ... hole21.jpg Iris Carr has done this too...
Author:  phavriluk [ Fri Nov 29, 2024 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar top varnish touch-up
We don't have an obligation to take every task someone brings in. Some can't be done, others have economics attending them which makes the job unrealistic. A job may be beyond the skill and/or experience of the person being asked to do the repair
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Nov 30, 2024 5:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar top varnish touch-up
phavriluk wrote:
We don't have an obligation to take every task someone brings in. Some can't be done, others have economics attending them which makes the job unrealistic. A job may be beyond the skill and/or experience of the person being asked to do the repair


Exactly right Peter and VERY important in the professional trade of Lutherie to be keen to avoid jobs that have what we call "scope creep" where the project keeps expanding and expanding into a thankless slog that you lose your soul and *** on. And it's not just about not getting paid for one's efforts it's the "opportunity cost" where a busy shop like mine if I get involved in some slog there are many other clients with gigs and deadlines that I can't help them with because I'm all tied up.

Before I became a working in the trade luthier I did what I used to do when I worked for GE I surveyed several dozen professional luthiers which included Rick RIP Turner who is who suggested I learn repair work.

Overwhelmingly the single greatest occupational hazard that working in the trade luthiers face is attempting to be all things to all people when some jobs are just to be avoided. We tend to be naturally helpful people who like a challenge. And that can result in taking in work that we shouldn't because of the opportunity costs to us and others, our client base and these days the reputation hit when someone gives us a bad review.

Had this guitar come into our shop we would explain that invisible finish repairs on this one are not likely and not something that we want to get any of it on us. For someone we knew and had some trust established we might offer a functional but visible drop fill repair and if and when expectations were set honestly and realistically we might take it in, drop fill, scrape, sand, polish, buff and call it a day. But for someone we had no established relationship with we would have declined on this one.

On the forums someone will have a different perspective and that's fine. It's also why there are few pros here.... Our's is from a very busy shop with only two Luthiers who do about 1,100 guitars annually for nearly two decades now. We are very busy, there are waiting lists for us for the various jobs and we let people down when we get tied up in repairs where there is no certainty of time to complete.
Author:  LuisLujan [ Mon Dec 02, 2024 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar top varnish touch-up
Hesh wrote:
phavriluk wrote:
We don't have an obligation to take every task someone brings in. Some can't be done, others have economics attending them which makes the job unrealistic. A job may be beyond the skill and/or experience of the person being asked to do the repair


Exactly right Peter and VERY important in the professional trade of Lutherie to be keen to avoid jobs that have what we call "scope creep" where the project keeps expanding and expanding into a thankless slog that you lose your soul and *** on............... And it's not just about not getting paid for one's efforts it's the "opportunity cost" where a busy shop like mine if I get i.


Hi Hesh
550 guitars a year, I can't even imagine that workload!
I totally agree with your comment about "bottlenecks" due to repairs that become complicated.
Although I try to avoid it, sometimes an issue arises that is hard to escape.
There is a Spanish saying that says, "getting older and learning" this is another example for me.
It has become clear to me now that this invisible repair is not viable.
Thanks for your help.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Dec 02, 2024 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cedar top varnish touch-up
LuisLujan wrote:
Hesh wrote:
phavriluk wrote:
We don't have an obligation to take every task someone brings in. Some can't be done, others have economics attending them which makes the job unrealistic. A job may be beyond the skill and/or experience of the person being asked to do the repair


Exactly right Peter and VERY important in the professional trade of Lutherie to be keen to avoid jobs that have what we call "scope creep" where the project keeps expanding and expanding into a thankless slog that you lose your soul and *** on............... And it's not just about not getting paid for one's efforts it's the "opportunity cost" where a busy shop like mine if I get i.


Hi Hesh
550 guitars a year, I can't even imagine that workload!
I totally agree with your comment about "bottlenecks" due to repairs that become complicated.
Although I try to avoid it, sometimes an issue arises that is hard to escape.
There is a Spanish saying that says, "getting older and learning" this is another example for me.
It has become clear to me now that this invisible repair is not viable.
Thanks for your help.


You are very welcome Luis and thanks for taking our information as intended to be helpful to you. I've made the same point many times on this forum and usually someone who does very little repair work and may lack professional training will come out of the wood work... and proclaim that they can fix the thing....

I once had a professional luthier or someone who had trained to be one tell me that they had to take most all jobs in because they did not want anyone to think that they could not do that job. They lasted 3 years and are now writing code for a living.

Luis you live in a beautiful land that I would love to visit and your guitar making tradition in Spain is second to none. My friend Max who is a member of this forum has studied in Spain and I wish I could have too.
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