Official Luthiers Forum!

After years of lurking and the last 6 months of putting together a shop and building "getting ready" fixtures and jigs I've finally begun to get going on my first build.

I've been keen on taking my time and trying to learn from all of the great exchanges here on the forum. I plan on retiring in about 2 yrs. and would really like to become skilled enough to be a hobby builder.

I decided on a flamenco for my first build and I'm using the Reyes plans that Tom Blackshear did and are now offered from GAL.

The top is spruce and the back and sides are yellow cedar. When I joined the back I put in a strip of Purpleheart and I was pleased with the way it came out.



Yesterday I routed the rosette channel and installed the rosette and that came out really great. I was really enthused at how well it fit in the channel and it looks good too!





Now that I experienced a small bit of success here comes the letdown..    I bent my first side using the Fox style bender I made and the heating blanket that I got from John.


I spritzed it good on both sides, wrapped it in brown paper, put it in the bender and brought it up to 300 degrees. Let it cool to room temperature and then did a second cycle.



I anxiously waited while it cooled back down the second time and when I took it out of the bender I was disappointed to see that I had made a $40 piece of toast..



Maybe I should have really got it wet or... maybe 300 was too high.... or maybe the second heating cycle was just a bit too much... LOL   In any case, now I'll have to give Chris at LMI a call tomorrow and order another set of yellow cedar and start again. Have any of you bent yellow cedar? .. If so, what temperature did you use?

Like the thread title says... I'm batting .500. The rosette and back went Ok but the side bending wasn't a home run..


Learning as I go,
Pete

_________________
Peter

I eagerly await answers to this, because I'm just now starting a Reyes-style flamenco, have never used yellow cedar, and would like to avoid the toast effect.

Peter - what top wood are you using? I couldn't decide for myself, so I'm actually building 2, one from Englemann and one from Sitka, both with yellow cedar B&S and ebony binding. I'll try to post some pics before the thread dies.

Jim

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Pete, did it burn all the way through or is only the surface singed? If it's only the surface, you may be able to sand it out. I think most of the guys here bend at around 275°, so you probably were running it too hot. And, since cedar is a bit softer than say mahogany or maple, it would probably bend at a little lower temp too, but Ill let the experts chime in on that.

JBreault38928.4103703704

_________________
Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

Welcome to the club. A nice start.
As far as heating goes, I sandwich the wood between the slats and put the
blanket on top of the slats. Then measure temp between the blanket and
the outer slat. I start my bend around 250 to 275 degrees and never let it
get above 300.   I have one of Johns timer/ thermostats between the blanket
and the power source. Well worth the investment. We have all read horror
stories about a bender that is left on. The timer part is a must.

Actually I just looked at your pict closely and you have that

Post a pict of the toast. I sometimes get a slightly burnt outside that sands
off. Also how long was each cycle?

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Pete,

I'm a newbie too who is still getting my "stuff" together.

If anyone can help you it's going to be the OLF!

Count on it

I too await the experts input.

Good luck!

I have never bent yellow cedar, but I bet you would need as much heat to bend it versus a hardwood. I bet you could get away with 225-250*.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I bet it was the second cycle that did you in. Remember, water boils at 212 deg. F., so you were getting the wood mighty dry with another 300 Deg. cycle. Besides, there's nothing wrong with pulling out the sides after the first cycle to check them. They may have been good to go as they were.

I have to say, though, that your instrument is looking very good at this point. Your pre-building preparation is paying off!

Carlton: I think you are correct in that the second cycle is what did it. I took the sides out after the first cycle and checked them but the ends had quite a bit of springback and I then opted for the second cycle. I should probably have wet them down again or else used a lower temperature.

Joe: Yes, the side did burn all the way through. I had hopes of sanding off the burnt area also but no joy there.

I still need a feel for what the proper temperatures might be for the various types of tonewood. Has anyone developed their own "cheat sheet?"


Learning as I go,
Pete

_________________
Peter

I know that I've posted this here before, but I couldn't find it.

John Mayes has an article on the 13th fret on side bending.

John Mayes on side bending

Everything you need to know (basically) is here.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Many thanks Rod. That John Mayes article is just what I was looking for; great information. Let's hope that the next set of yellow cedar is done correctly..   

Learning as I go,
Pete

_________________
Peter

There's some great stuff in the archives of this forum on side bending. One thing to note is that you can bend wood dry - there's water already in the wood. Tony Karol does this, as do others. I'm about to try it myself. Actually, I think I'll start a new thread on this.

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/