Official Luthiers Forum!

For years I have have resawn my own billets, both softwoods and hardwoods (including Ziricote, ebony, shedua, koa, walnut, and hard maples) up to 11 inches wide. I've wasted a piece of wood or two and dulled a few blades but I have never experienced what happened to me last night.
I was resawing some qtrd cocobolo from a billet with a spanking brand new Lenox tri-master blade. I had made one full pass and was in about 1 inch of cut on my second cut when it something happened but I still can't figure out what it was. The picture below shows the ruined results of sides I was cutting but the result to me was a quick trip to the emergency room.If you closely you will see the end of the wood was forced down and through the table insert.
I have lacerations on my right middle and ring finger and a broken bone in my ring finger.The blade itself never touched me, thankfully.
I always make sure the wood is square to the saw table and that I keep the wood firmly against the rip fence.This is about as close to a bandsaw kick-back as I can imagine.
Has anyone else encountered anything like this and what should I look out for in the future? I can tell you that I will be a bit nervous from here on in while resawing.
Tom

Tom....sorry to hear about the accident. I have resawed wood and never had anything close to this happen. It does seem almost like band saw kick back. I hope someone knows what happened so the rest of us can avoid this!

Get well soon!

_________________
Brad
Avon, OH

Tom;
I've been resawing for 30 years and never had a accident like this-
Are you sure the Quik grips didn't move?
I use Screw clamps to make sure of a secure fence.

Mike Collins
www.collinsguitars.com
OH! Shane at Highmountain resaws all the time and he may be the best person to contact about this.
mc

_________________
Mike Collins

Ouch! I'm truly sorry to hear that you were hurt by it...

Well, after talking with a few people about my experiences with a Trimaster, I'm inclined to believe they have a bad design element to them. I had a problem with the blade chopping through wood and kicking with a loud BANG. Apparently, I'm not the only one who has had the issue. I sold my blade because I thought it was the fault of my old saw. The person I sold it to had the same issue, and we realized partly it was a bad weld, but I think it's more than that.

I have an Aluminum Master from them, which has a more aggresive tooth, and it seems to cut much better than a Trimaster. No issues with it, and as far as I know Bob Zoot hasn't had issues with his Al-Master. I believe he also had problems with a Trimaster.

For the record....
I called Lenox about the problem, and questioned them about why the blade seems to chop through the wood rather than slicing through it. Apparently, they designed it that way, and feel that's the best thing for wood. They thought I was crazy for wanting the Aluminum Master with a more aggresive tooth (rake angle), but it's far better in wood.

I think they're clueless about cutting exotic hardwoods. Chopping is good? Right...sure it is.
Don Williams38989.7798958333

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Once while resawing cocobolo that was badly casehardened I noticed that the wood was cupping so badly that it was grabbing the blade. Mabe this could be what happened? I don't know, but I am glad that your injuries were not worse. I hope You have a speedy recovery.

Al

Tom sorry to hear about that. Hope your injuries heal soon. It sure will make you shell shock when you get back to re-sawing. I had that happen when re-sawing a 6" x 6" block for some rosette squares. I never attributed it to the blade but to a poorly designed insert. The saw was a Grizzly and the insert wasn't very good. First off all you need to ease the wood into the blade. There is a tremendous amout of downward pressure on that insert. I made a new one up out of UMF plastic stuff. My new Laguna has a much sturdier and thicker insert.


Don I also had that problem with the Trimaster Blades. Scared the living daylights out of me. One thing I have discovered with some hardwoods especially if they are wet is that the sawdust does not clear from the kerf fast enough and will start to chop and chatter in the cut. When that happens I need to slow down the feed rate.
And your right the blade should cut not chop. When I've asked questions at Lenox and Laguna they never heard of some of the woods that we cut.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Sorry to hear about your injury Tom, glad it wasn't worst and hope you'll have a speedy recovery and find the faulty piece and fix this so it does not happen again.
Serge Poirier38989.8401273148

Get well soon, Tom. I'm really glad to read that your injuries aren't any worse than they could have been.

I'd rather resaw exotic woods with a $15 Delta blade than a Trimaster. Dang POS just about wrecked my saw.

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

The bandsaw blade definitely has enough power to grab the end of the wood and jerk it downward if the end is not fully supported by the throat plate. I would guess that either (1) the throat plate is broken, or (2) the wood you are resawing is thinner than the opening in the throat plate.

Was the plate aluminum? That just doesn't look right! I'd be asking too!

   I could imagine if the back of the work was lifted, inadvertantly it might grab, but that seems like a real stretch!
    
   Sorry to hear about your injuries, and thanks for posting because I'm going to take resawing a lot more seriously!

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

the plate definitely let the wood jump here .. my delta does that sometimes as well, but the conditions ahve ot be jsut right - the wood needs to be able to fit into the slot, and maybe the feed rate is a touch to fast. maybe because its only a 3/4 hp it cant rip the wood right up out of my hands, it just jumps, and its always at the start of a cut - once the wood gets to the table past the blade, its fine. The slot in the plate is too big, giving the blade somewhere to push the wood into. replace it.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Thanks to all for the well wishes and advice. I think this was a case of the "perfect storm" that was brewing.
1. Lenox Trimaster blade on less than seasoned cocobolo. When cutting the billet just before the accident the blade would occasionally grab or chop the wood. Searching the forum archives I see where other have run into this problem with this particular blade.
2. The throat plate that came equipped on the Rikon bandsaw is unsubstantial, being made out od a soft plastic. When the blade "chopped" at the start of a new cut it forced the wood (this piece being 5/16" thick)down through the throat plate.


Lessons learned:
1. Get rid of the Tri Matser blade and go back to my proven WoodSlicers.
2. Replace the throat plate with either phenolic or aluminum.
3. Use a more sunstantial clamping method on my rip fence.
4. Show more respect to the machine in use.

I hope to be back in action in about three weeks to finish two builds in process and start another.

with much more respect for a bandsaw,
Tom

Tom all good ideas you have. You may want to try the Lenox Aluminum Master Blade. Differant band and gring on the teeth. Don W., Larry Davis and I have been using them. So far they are pretty good. I just cut some cocobolo and it went pretty smooth. Get well soon.
Oh one more thing: How wide is that blade. Looks like 1/2" in the pic. I had the most problems with the 1/2" TriMaster. Scare/d the daylights out of me. May I suggest a 3/4" to 1" bladeBobc38991.4237268519

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I've been using a 3/4" wide TriMaster for a while....cuts like magic on everything so far, not even a hiccup, you guys are worrying me!

Greg

_________________
Gwaltney Guitars

You are right Bob, it is the 1/2". Don't understand why one would work and not the other. They both have the same tpi and rake......?

thanks for the input
Tom

[QUOTE=Bobc] You may want to try the Lenox Aluminum Master Blade. Differant band and gring on the teeth. Don W., Larry Davis and I have been using them. /QUOTE]

I use the aliminum because the kerf is narrower that the standard Tri Master bands.

I've been using Tri Mster 1" 3tpi for a number of years. Matter of fact, I purchase rolls of band material and have them welded for me. I have never experienced any problems like you guys are suggesting....ever...and I cut for a living. The only rough cutting Tri Master band I 've experienced was a poorly sharpened band returned by Hastings Saw. Straight welds are critical on any carbide tipped tooth and cutting problems can be encountered from poor welds.

Don, the walnut set shipped to you is cut with a Tri Master band...check it out closely....smooth as rippled glass.

It's unfortunate when shop "accidents" result in injury, but that possibility looms large when we become distracted or loose focus. The great thing about band saw is there is virtually NO KICKBACK because all the force is downward and never front or back. I've experienced minor mishaps similar to the incident in this thread, but it's been my own fault. Starting the cut not focused on it i.e., not sufficient grip on the wood and starting the cut quickly with the board tipped forward slightly (the trailing end off the table) and catching the top corner while unprepared for the force pushing downward or cutting a board with a missing corner aligned on the table instead of at the top. This is guaranteed to result in a "kick down" if one isn't focused on the cut and holding tight to the board. The band is just doing what bands do...go around and around and doesn't think much at all. It's The human element in the mix that creates the danger. Larry Davis38992.422349537

Tom I hope you heal soon.

I am not a fan of the way Trimaster blades run and avoid them whenever I can. I only keep a Trimaster around for woods that eat steel blades, like makore or desert ironwood. The surface they leave is ideal, but their kerf is wide so I gain little in the end except some time. More importantly, they occasionally "behave" badly when cutting and sometimes make resawing much scarier activity for me. Plus, they are expensive.

For typical lutherie woods, my current favorite blades are the 1/2" resaw blades from Dave at Hasting's Saw (from whom I have received only excellent service). They run well, have a very narrow kerf loss, and leave an excellent surface (maybe one pass at 80-100 grit to clean up). And they are cheap; for my 133" blade, they are less than $20, plus it cost the same to ship 1 blade as it does to ship 7.

I used one this weekend and measured the kerf at 0.035"; I started with a 1.36" thick board which after 6 cuts totalled 1.17" which is 0.035"/cut. Darned good. And because the surface is so nice, I was able to cut pretty close to spec and increase my yield by a set, which pays for 5 blades. They last about as I expect them to, which is to say okay but not stunning; but for $20 when they get dull I swap them out. Most importantly, they run true and smooth and have never misbehaved for me like the Trimaster has.

Here's a pic right off the saw:



I like Timberwold blades too, but their kerf is about 0.05", so for expensive woods I'd rather use the narrower-kerfed blade.

Bob,
Wow...what a picture!
Thanks for the well wishes and advice. Hope Lenox isn't getting trashed too hard because they do make some nice products....I just don't think I'll have confidence in my TriMaster going forward. I learn from experience and by asking questions. I don't want this type of experience again so I have asked others of their experiences with the blade and other operating conditions that may have attributed to the accident. I don't think inattentiveness was a contributing factor as I am always on guard while resawing. I truly appreciate all the advice everyone has offered and will take it to heart once I get the nerve to cut cocobolo again.

Tom

Good Luck Tom! Get better!!

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)