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I just received word form a client that he must cancel. He had commissioned a guitar with an other luthier. That luthier had messed up the peghead and fretboard binding big time. as the story goes as I was told the luthier promised to refund the client his money (100% of the cost was paid up front by the client.) The client has been chasing the luthier via phone and email for 4 months since the refund was promised. Now the luthier is requiring that the client take the flawed guitar at a reduced price or wait till the luthier is able to sell the guitar. So the client is unable to make the deposit on a guitar from me.

To Me this no big deal as I was a bit over booked anyway. But I told the client that he should demand that the luthier redo the flawed neck and fretboard and make the order right at the Luther's expense on time and material.

I agree that if a client backs out of an order once into construction that the client may have to wait for sell of the instrument to get a full refund. That would be the clients fault. However to demand that a client take a guitar that is majorly flawed even at a reduced price or wait till the guitar sells is wrong. The luthier should without hesitation re-build the flawed parts and make the order right. Any thing less in my opinion the luthiers is a poor excuse of a craftsman. In my opinion he must live up to his responsibility to the commission, PERIOD!!!!

If this story is true, and of course I have no way to know for sure, I am in deep sorrow that we have this kind amongst us.

sorry to hear of your disappointing development michael.

but regardless of the profession, occupation or calling there are those involved whose ethics leave a great deal to be desired. there is no reason to expect luthierie to be any different.

Sounds a little fishy--Who would pay 100% up front? Selling the guitar has NOTHING to do with the buyer. Fix it or refund are the only to reasonable options.
Maybe I'm suspicious, but it sounds like a buyer looking for an out.

Sorry to hear about this Michael, if there is one person who deserved an honest commission, it's you but don't despair my friend, honest people will come your way.

Serge

[QUOTE=af_one] Sounds a little fishy--Who would pay 100% up front? Selling the guitar has NOTHING to do with the buyer. Fix it or refund are the only to reasonable options.
Maybe I'm suspicious, but it sounds like a buyer looking for an out.[/QUOTE]

Many well know and some not so well known require 100% up front. This is not unusual. I require 75%

Michael, sad story to be sure. Sounds like the luthier in question has a flawed guitar, exacerbated by flawed character, multiplied by flawed business practices, mitigated by fancy footwork. One out of four is 25%, he get's an F. By the way, who is this guy? And of course, we don't expect an answer. I think I'd rather have a root canal than own this guitar. I think a lawyer would be proper recourse.

Serge I am not at all worried I actually have and over flowing plate right now as it is. Plus I have two quotes out that I am very sure one is likely to to be contracted this month.

[QUOTE=jamesneunder] Michael, sad story to be sure. Sounds like the luthier in question has a flawed guitar, exacerbated by flawed character, multiplied by flawed business practices, mitigated by fancy footwork. One out of four is 25%, he get's an F. By the way, who is this guy? And of course, we don't expect an answer. I think I'd rather have a root canal than own this guitar. I think a lawyer would be proper recourse.[/QUOTE]

The luthier is NOT!!! a member of this forum. The luthier is in Brazil which legally restricts the clients options.

Michael, to me it also sounds like a good excuse to back out. When the customer first ordered the guitar did he tell you he had another commission on the works?peterm39048.5203587963

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Michael, That's too bad, I'm glad you found out about it sooner than later.

Hesh/AF -- Don't you think it's strange that this story would be made up BEFORE any deposit was made? The customer has nothing to lose yet from Michael as he hasn't even made an initial deposit. I would tend to believe the customer as he has nothing vested in Michael yet. Now if he were using this story to try and recover a deposit, then I think I would scrutinize it a bit more.

John

It would be interesting to see if the client would send you some pictures of the flaws. His response could be enlightening.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

I think it is highly unlikely the customer is not being truthful... don't even know why anyone suspects he is not.

Can't the luthier just make a new neck for it and pay for the shipping costs?

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

I believe him as I have the name of the luthier and his web site. which has been shutdown by the way. I was also told the story prior to quoting the project. John is right the client had nothing vested in me, so no reason to lie. I have had several phone conversations with the client and am very sure this horror story is at least true to some degree.MichaelP39048.5379513889

This what I told the client to demand. I get thei impression that the luthier has finished the guitar and is refusing to rebild the neck and re-finish the guitar, telling the client it is too late to fix. I told the client this is hog wash as nearly any thing can be re-done if the luthier knows his trade.

If that's case I feel for the guy....
There's no reason the luthier couldn't redo the neck.
Sorry for loosing the sale Michael.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Sorry for assuming things Michael, from what you last wrote, this customer seems to be just fine, i hope it will all turn out ok for him.

I would prefer that my buyers give me a deposit and keep the rest of the purchase money until the guitar is completed. This sounds to me like either the money has been spent or simply the luthier has other work that is still paying and doesn't want to spend time on a project that is not yealding further income.
I have had clients who want to make payments while the guitar is being made and although I will allow it, I'd rather that they kept the money themselves untill completion. The temptation is always there to use that money for an emergency Zoot purchase and then if something comes up and you need to refund for some reason......"Oops sorry I spent it".

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Michael I would ask the buyer who the luthier in question is! Insist upon it as a condition of letting the person out of the arrangemnet!
This way you can confirm the story yourself, by calling or emailing the person in question.
I am not one of the people who think that dodgy ppl like this luthier shouldnt be mentioned by name, I for one think they should be "named" to spare potential customers looking for a commission guitar the potential trouble of dealing with such a person.
Cheers
charliewood
PS I myself have heard horror stories in my area about luthiers promising workmanship beyond thier skil level and then fighting the customer tooth and nail once the job is done and the customer is dissatisfied.
Unfortunately I think the story is an all too common one and a situation that might cost qualified luthiers jobs they deserve.
When I was shopping for a bandsaw, the young guy in the Homedespot tool department asked what it was for, when I told him luthiery he started asking how much to build him a guitar, I suppose I could have been unscrupulous and sold him my #1. LOL but I was honest.

I have tried to contact the luthier to see if I could aid in any way. No response. but that is beside the point.

Just so those that have question the deposit and to ease Johns mind. What I do when I get a deposit is to open separate D.B.A. (doing business as)account in my name. All material acquisitions are funded by this account. My wife, my accountant keeps the ledger on this account and requires me to provide the invoices and statement. Once the commission is completed and ready for delivery the account is closed and the remaining funds are moved into my personal account. Yes I could fudge but it would cost me time and trouble to fix the books come tax time if I did. I do offer a prorated deposit refund, starting at 100% up until major materials are purchased if in-house materials are not used. Then it is prorated after that. On the couple times I have returned less than full deposit, I have and will always supply copies of material invoices and hours spent on the project to the client to confirm what the in cured fees went to. I do not make any attempt to make money on a canceled job. Just pay for the labor and materials used. I do not want someones money unless they get an instrument. I also work my commissions on a written contract that clearly defines mine and the clients responsibilities and rights as well as the deposit refund schedule and warranty.

Like I said I do require a 75% deposit. I use a high but not full deposit to insure that the client truly is as committed to the project as I am. in the beginning I use to require only a material cost deposit and full refund available. I ended up eating a couple of guitars for many months. I changed my deposit to its current requirements sometime ago. Not one single recipient has had a complaint about it and have had no issues with dropped orders since. It may have cost me some low end orders or some orders from clients on the edge of being able to afford a commission, but that is ok. A high deposit actually protects someone that really should not be ordering a hand crafted guitar from getting in over their head.MichaelP39048.5912384259