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Thanks to Andy Zimmerman, I was able to attend the NAMM show. I took a few pictures. This one from the R Taylor both is pretty interesting. The intersection of the X-brace was notched just like a standard x brace.
What do you think? Has anyone tried this?

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

The way I see it, that top would allow for a lot more movement... maybe a good bracing pattern for a fingerstyle guitar. Definately something to look into...

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Michael,
I agree with you, but that Bob Taylor is a pretty smart guy. I suspect he's done a fair amount of testing and is pretty confident that he's not going to have a bunch of warranty work.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Steve, i also think this pattern has some merrit due to it's lightness and for the way it covers all the vibration area of the lower bout, should give a very balanced sound IMHO.

I think I will stick with the traditional X brace, but very interesting approach. I would be concerned with structural as well. He is certainly an experienced builder and innovator, of which I am neither so there must have been a reason or something to support the deisgn change in his mind.

Thanks for sharing

Mike

Sorry to disagree Serge bro but the Tone faerie are whispering bass heavy and weakened in the worst possible place even with a thick stiff top.

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Theres no cap over the intersected brace there so I'm sticking to a traditional x brace too. Don't like this "innovation" much! Of course Bob Taylor has done a lot of work on this I'm sure...I'll be interested to see how it works out.

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

These braces look huge to me.

Notice the huge scallop in the one solid main brace.

Is this the Grand Symphony?

The routed edge is a known Taylor mod.

One advantage Bob has is the ability to quickly try many variations of this top. Even moving a single brace a 1/4 inch or so. R and D dept.

I'd definitely trip over to a local Taylor Dealer to play one of these and take a listen. Thanks for posting it Steve and congrats on your trip to NAMM. Did you see Howard?

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Maybe showing something like this is a ploy. Lead the competetion down the wrong road while Taylor forges ahead.


Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Guys, what is running around the outer edge of the soundboard, about a 1/2 an inch in, waist to waist along the lower bout? Its not another brace of some sort is it?

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Aoibeann

Bruce
This is not really the Grand Symphony. This is one of the 2 bracing
options
on the R.Taylor line. The R Taylor line came before the GS. The other is
conventional X bracing. The body shape of the R. Taylor guitars became
the
shape that was used for the Grand Symphony. With the GS they use
traditonal machine cut bracing like the rest of the standard Taylor line.

As far as playing them, R Taylor is technically a different company than
Taylor, so the have different dealers. Since they are hand made, they only
make a few hundred a years so they are not in every store that sells
Taylor.
The most interesing thing I liked with these guitars is the solid linings
they use. The bend them on a Fox style bender. The rims are solid as a
brick. The had 2 sets of rims in the booth. One conventional kerfed lined
and the other solid. An amazing difference. They use Mahogany for the
top lining and a matching lining for the back. (EIR, Koa etc) They talk
about this in the article in the Fretboard Journal.
The web site is   www.rtaylorguitars.com.

I met Ed Granero, who is one of the 3 main builders of the R Taylor
guitars. He invited me to visit their shop. It is in the complex of Taylor,
but it is a separate entity.
azimmer139103.4862384259

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

[QUOTE=Aoibeann] Guys, what is running around the outer edge of the soundboard, about a 1/2 an inch in, waist to waist along the lower bout? Its not another brace of some sort is it? [/QUOTE]

It's hard to tell by the picture. I'd also like to know what it is!

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

i believe that may be the proprietary taylor top edge rout. it purportedly frees the top to move more freely.crazymanmichael39103.5000578704

Kirby and Todd, thanks for your concern and differing opinions, i was not about to try this bracing pattern, i would certainly have to listen to how it sounds first!

Looking at it though, while having some Somogyi theories in mind, i just couldn't resist the thought of lightness and long dipole and was trying to see how the sound would travel with such a bracing pattern. I might be wrong here but i think that if their rims is as solid as Andy states, the top doesn't need to be as braced as we are used to, just thinking out loud before attempting something foolish!

Maybe we oughta invite Mr Ervin to hear his opinion on this?

Yes
That is their patented route around the edge of the lower bout

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

I actually see a tonal benefit in that bracing pattern and I believe it will provide substancially more top movement than a regular X-brace. Sure it does look weaker.... but what does Ervin Somogyi teach? To brace a top and bring it as close to the edge as you can... a bit lighter and it would be too weak.
I believe this bracing pattern may do just that, a bit weaker than a regular X-brace but not too weak.
Besides, I bet Bob Taylor knows better and has ALL the resources to try and test....

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

It depends what sort of "top movement" that you get I suppose. It might be interesting to treat the treble side leg the same as the bass side one - a V brace from the soundhole up to the upper transverse brace with two offset lower legs, maybe with the lower legs notched (lappped?) into the V. Then again maybe not!

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

    I tried something similar to this bracing pattern years ago and the
three guitars that have it implemented on are still in great shape and
showing no signs of adverse effects from the lack of continuation of the
two "X" legs in the lower bout.

    Bracing on a Taylor is pretty hefty and rigid anyway and that one
continuous length will likely provide plenty of strength along the tension
course of the strings.

    The result will be, more than likely, what I'd experienced....an increase
in bottom end, especially in smaller bodied guitars. I built an MJ and two
Grand Concerts and all were nicely balanced with powerful projection in
the bottom.

    The variation that I used never became a default pattern for me simply
because the difference was significant enough for me to make the
change. That was only my personal experience, but the guys at R. Taylor
may be getting different results.

    That "patented" edge rout is simply working like the carved recurve on
the top of a violin or archtop guitar. it allows the more massive and rigid
section of the top where all of the load of string tension is absorbed and
distrubuted by the bracing to be suspended by a much thinner and more
flexible edge section. Again, similar things have been done for years by
many of us small builders, but no patents were ever sought or secured.
It's an application that has been applied for centuries, actually, but on the
outside of the tops of stringed instruments.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars Kevin Gallagher39103.6170833333

The R Taylors are built a bit differently. With the EXTREMELY rigid rims, they
thickness all of their tops to 0.125. Thicker than the usual Taylor guitar.
This allows them to braces them lighter. At least that is what Ed Granero
told me.

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Normally I do not think of a bass side but I think this one built one. This whole scheme to me hinges on the bridge plate scallop riding the edge of responsiveness/ structural integrity.K.O.39103.6949421296

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Hesh
The rims are VERY VERY STIFF because they use a non kerfed lining on the
R.Taylors. The top side and back side lining are actually integrated into
the
side supports and glued in as a single entity. They bend their linings like
we
bend our binding on a Fox style bender.
At the NAAM show they had 2 identical rims of EIR. One had conventional
kerfed linings. (Standard on the Taylor line) and one with the non kerfed
linings (Standard on the R Taylors) The difference is stiffness was very
dramatic.    To make the look even cleaner, the lining on the back side is
of
the same material as the back. The top side liner looked like mahogany.
Their is a nice article about the R. Taylors and their linings in the last
issue
of the Fretboard Journal
Since I cannot upload a pict, I will email it to you
azimmer139103.6736574074

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Hesh,
    I agree that there is no primary bass or treble side to a top, there are
primary bass and treble nodes in every top. Those nodes can be
effectively and dramtically addressed by brace placement and voicing.
That's our goal when we voice our tops...to address the nodes that
paricular frequencies resonate at.

     This is kind of like the discussion last month that brought up the topic
of mass and its inevitable damping effects of EVERY guitar top from
EVERY builder. Even though some can claim that their goal is to eliminate
damping due to mass...it is impossible since bracing is essential to the
survival of any guitar and its mass must be present. The issue becomes
one of learning to use the mass and the damping that is always present
with it to our benefit as we direct vibration with it since we cannot
eliminate it. We can;t eliminate the traffic, but we can learn to direct to
areas that will make it work for us, so to speak.

    It's never been a matter of lightening the the bass side for more bass
response or tightening it for less. This is probaby one of the most
misunderstood aspects of building and some builders have dismissed the
value of voicing and addressing the specific nodes of a top simply
because they can't seem to get it.

   These are the builders who will default to designs that have been
deeply established by others for a generally good tone with a reasonable
balance and response characteristic set. What they fail to realize is that
those deeply established designs were arrived at through the countless
hours that their originators spent doing just what we who pursue a more
practical and applicable knowledge of voicing are doing. We just vary our
efforts to intentionally reach different results, whether good or bad, for a
number of reasons, the greatest being reference and experience.

    This joint being shown by R. Taylor is certaily one that creates a
different venue for tone generation than a standard "X" brace and its
ability to distribute vbration is completely different as it does.

    I look forward to playig one with this pattern and am anxious to hear
the difference. I'm not in complete aggreement with the use of non kerfed
linings, but look forward to hearing what they offer in the R. Taylor line. I
like a rigid rim set, but alos feel that they can be too heavy if the concept
is overvalued.

     Again, just my opinions.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega GuitarsKevin Gallagher39104.6210763889