Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello everyone.

I have been lurking around here for a couple of weeks, ever since i was
bitten by the guitar making bug (and it seems to have bitten HARD!).

I decided to take the plunge with a StewMac 000 kit and i'm really
enjoying the process of putting it together and modifying some parts.

I am nearing the point at witch i will glue the top and back to the sides
and although I think i have my head around most of what is to come i'm a
bit confused about the binding. Well i know basically how to do it but i'm
really unsure of what tool to use. As this is my first guitar i'm buying
tools as i go along - i don't want to waste money on getting the wrong
thing so i thought i'd ask your advice.

My first thought was to get a dremel, but i get the impression they may
be a bit underpowered for routing. So that lead me to think about
Laminate trimmers. I would like to be able to do both routing and inlay
work with whatever tool i decide to go with. I live in the UK and was
looking at something like this: http://www.rotozipuk.co.uk/acatalog/
RotoZip_Tool.html

Any help you can offer to guide me on the right road would be much
appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

John.

Hi and welcome John,

I've got the smaller Porter Cable Model 7310 and like it a lot. It fits nicely in the hand. For inlay you'll likely need another tool. But that's guitar building for you. Jigs will come in handy especially for routing the bindings. I recommend visiting one of the sponsors "Blues Creek Guitars" above for an idea on the routing jig.

Have fun.

_________________
Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

Welcome John. You will love this place.
I too agree with using a laminate trimmer for binding. Mine is mounted on a
Tom Ribbecke designed binding machine. See LMI for details

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=B inding
+Tools&NameProdHeader=Universal+Binding+Machine

Andy

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

You can certainly rout binding channels with a Dremel but it will take a number of passes and light cuts so patience is a must. You will also have to improvise an edge guide for the Dremel which will probably not see a lot of use in the future- once you buy a lam trimmer.
It really depends on whether you think you will build only this one guitar (not likely), and whether you have other woodworking interests.
A laminate trimmer is very useful around the shop even if you are not building guitars, so if you have the cash, it would probably be a good thing to get.
John

Welcome to the OLF John!

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Welcome John, Pc-310 is the way to go. You can't go wrong. I've never had a problem with mine, and I make many bases from plexi glass. The base mount makes it great for this. I also use it in my binding machine.

Welcome John--

I started out with an inexpensive import from Harbor Freight and regretted that decision rather quickly.    You will not go wrong with any of the smaller name brand routers. I ended up getting a Bosch Colt and I do like it. The jigs are important and also something to practice with.

Routing a binding channel is probably the most nerve-wracking operation I've done. I found that old wood cigar boxes ($5 from used furniture/semi-antique places) are a great way to get the feel for using the router with a jig or guide. I went through a couple of them before tackling my guitar.

Have patience and fun while building!

_________________
Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

Sorry-forgot to mention about the Rotozip.
I think a lam trimmer (or even a Dremel) would be more useful. Zip tools are great for cutting holes in drywall.
John

a laminate trimmer will do virtually all the routing tasks necessary in most guitar building methods. a bigger router may do some of them them easier, but the lam trimmer is sufficient.

personally, of all the lam trimmers, i prefer the porter cable 310, but unfortunately it is probably the most expensive one available. and contrary to the statement made above, it is smaller than the pc 7310 both physically and power wise. it is just simply better. in particular its depth of cut is far more precise than anything else on the market. but it does have weaknesses; e.g., the collet can be sticky and it really needs a tranparent base to be made or bought.

the bosch colt referred to is very popular with many, but as i haven't used it i can't comment on it.

John,
   I am not sure about the Rotozip tools for routing but I will say that you will not be sorry for spending a few extra bucks and getting a good quality router. Over the years I have owned some inexpensive routers and they have all been replaced for various reasons (limitations).

Good luck!

_________________
Brad
Avon, OH

Thank you for all your replies! You are certainly making me feel very
welcome and i appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge
with me.

I did a little bit of router research and found a couple within my meager
price range.

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=120996&Referrer=Fro ogle

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=29162&MAN=Trend-T3e k
-1-4-inch-Plunge-Router-240v-+-12-Piece-Router-Bit-Set

I take it that these would be ok for routing the binding channels? Maybe
i'd have to improvise some kind of guide though....

I wonder why these cant be used for inlay work - it is because they are to
big?

Must sleep now it's well past 3am

Thanks again, take care everyone.

john.

Hi John and welcome here friend!

I have the PC 7310 that i use for the binding and purfling channels and i just love it, plenty strong and very affordable in the less than $100 range when on special, prolly less superior than the 310 on the depth of cut adjustment like Michael said but still very versatile tool that mounts easily in a rosette jig for instance.

Not sure if anyone has ever done inlay with the 7310 but i intend to try mine for that application as soon as i finish building an overam router jig with micro adjustment!

Have fun!

John,

I have a large fleet of routers but the main one I use is a Trend T5..made in the UK and readily available for you. I cut rosette channels with a circle cutting jig and binding channels using Stewmac's bearing/cutter kit.

The T 5 is a well made router and a dream to use.

Cheers Martin

[QUOTE=JohnB]

I did a little bit of router research and found a couple within my meager
price range.

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=120996&Referrer=Fro ogle

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=29162&MAN=Trend-T3e k
-1-4-inch-Plunge-Router-240v-+-12-Piece-Router-Bit-Set

[/QUOTE]

John, the T3 should be ok but if you can afford it try and go for the T5...it has a bit more guts.

http://www.trendmachinery.co.uk/t5/

Cheers Martinkiwigeo39106.1848148148

John as one of the UK builders here let me welcome you to the forum. You'll find it a great place to get answers to any knotty question.

The Porter cable laminate trimmer is undoubtedly very good, but sadly not available here in the UK except as an import and in 110V, so you'd need a site transformer. Of the trimmers avaliable here in the UK the most popular for guitar builders seems to be the Makita 3707 and the DeWalt DW670, I use the latter and Dave White here uses the Makita. If it is your only trimmer then I'd probably go with the Makita, as it comes with a fence as well as the bearing follower, perhaps Dave will chip in.. The advantage of these trimmers is that they have a built in bearing guide for following the edge so you can use ordinary router bits (I use a 6.35mm downcut bit) rather than have to buy expensive bearing kits, which by the time they get here cost as much as thr trimmer!

If you want any help let me know.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Welcome to the OLF John

Cheers

Kim

I use the makita router colin just mentioned which works great. However I also have a dremel which i use for inlay. KurT39106.2558912037

Welcome John.

I bought the Hitachi M6 SB from the UK. It is a nice trimmer, but the height adjustment is coarse, so you always have to tweak and test on scrap a few times before it is dialed in perfectly. It now lives permanently in a binding jig, and does a great job there. As has been noted, PC 310 is more versatile for multiple tasks, it has a very solid base, accurate depth control, and the low center of gravity is good for the balance. No other trimmer that I know of in this class is this compact. Fairly big 230/110 V site transformers are quite inexpensive in the UK (at least compared to here).

Constantly changing bits, collars, collar inserts and sub bases and so on on trimmers and routers gets old, so my goal is to have a separate trimmer in each fixture. Arnt39106.3212847222

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Hi John and welcome. Interesting website you have there.

I used a Dremel and Stew-mac edge-guide for my first few but it is underpowered for routing binding channels imho. You need a laminate trimmer not a plunge router - these are much too big and cumbersome. My Makita is fabulous and I use I for all of the routing processes I do in instrument making. If you are only making one guitar though it's a big outlay unless you do other woodwork stuff.

Binding is tricky and ideally you need to make a binding jig to hold the lam trimmer. I see you are in London. When you get to the routing stage you are more than welcome to bring your guitar to my workshop (just outside High Wycombe) and we can use my binding-jig/lam trimmer to route the binding/purfling channels- you would just have to buy a bit for the lam trimmer.Dave White39106.3829861111

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Well i thank you all again for your generous help, i'm really warmed by all
your assistance.

Dave - that's a very very kind offer and i might just take you up on it -
really enjoyed looking at your website your 'How did it start?' section lists
all the same websites and things that got me excited about guitar making
(except Amazon still have not managed to send me Cumpiano's book).

I think i'll try and pick up a Makita test it out and take it from there.

Best wishes to you all,

john.

P.S. Dave that neck joint with the flying buttress looks great.JohnB39106.5541435185